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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:25 pm
by tbleakne
We all have our stories of disappointing SCE policy, but I occasionally find examples from other states that show we should be grateful for the policies in place in CA, imperfect as they are.

From TN:

https://www.knoxmercury.com/2017/03/15/tvas-resistance-net-metering-creates-obstacle-household-solar-power/

Quotes:

Net metering is allowed in 36 states. It is not an option for the 9 million people served by TVA.

The reason offered by the nation’s largest public power utility is that net metering is not allowed by the law that created TVA. The utility generates electricity and sells it to 155 local power companies (LPCs). The LPCs create and maintain the distribution system and sell the power they bought from TVA to us. The contractual arrangement with TVA is a “buy all, sell all” whereby the LPCs can purchase electricity only from TVA. This effectively forbids net metering, because TVA interprets that as the LPC buying power from the owner of the PV array.

Thus, any grid-tied solar system within the TVA region must have dual metering, one to measure power coming off the grid, another to measure power going to the grid. The arrangement with TVA is likewise “buy all, sell all” in that you have no choice but to sell all the power you generate to TVA, then you buy back whatever you actually consume. If you are able to get in under TVA’s “cap” for its Green Power Providers incentives program, you will be paid the retail rate for the power you generate. All others are paid the lower wholesale rate. Everyone pays the retail rate for what they consume. So the home or business owner pays for the PV system, and TVA makes money on the power generated by it.

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:47 pm
by Boomer23
Well that stinks. Thanks for the info tbleakne.

Now what do you know about SCE's plans to force customers to TOU rates that Peak between 4 or 5 pm and 8 or 9 pm?

Do we get grandfathered TOU hours, for how long are we grandfathered? Can a current NEM customer who is on NEM1 select a TOU plan that has more favorable solar hours?

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:22 pm
by smkettner
I might be looking at going off-grid with TVA. Some places that may not even be possible. Or everything produced would stay in my battery consumed directly.

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:22 am
by Marktm
Home solar, either GT or off-grid, IMO, is rapidly becoming an economic reality:

1. Pika/SolarEdge technologies have equipment that can transition easily from grid-tied to high voltage (EV type) battery backup - emergency for now, but eventually economical for off-grid
2. EVs have the potential to become the energy storage of choice (used Leafs are currently the best/cheapest energy storage available). When 100 kWh batteries are common, consumers will have the ability to use the excess energy storage to their economic advantage.
3. V2X is the "missing link" so that consumers have the choice of what works best for them - totally off-grid or grid tied with "smart grid" and "smart charging" apps that maximize their economic return on solar - based on whatever energy contracts available in their area.
4. In Texas, the current economics of GT solar, combined with "free nights" energy provide a significant payback - not there yet, but very close. With the savings of an EV, the economics look even better.

Give it 5-10 years and we'll see - if public utilities and EV manufacturers "wrench the cog" or not.

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:40 pm
by tbleakne
New push from SCE for Time-of-Use

Today a friend showed me an alert she had just received from SCE. She has had PV solar for 2 years next May, but on the standard tiered tariff without Time-of-Use. The letter said she had until Mar 1, 2018 to select one of 3 tariff options. If she did not reply, she would be put into Option 1 by default.

Option 1: A new TOU tariff with highest On Peak summer rate 5 to 8 pm weekdays, other crazy things including Super Off Peak starting at 8 am ??
Option 2: Remain with her current tiered rate.
Option 3. Move to tariff TOU-DT, the standard TOU tariff that I and many of you have with SCE, where the On Peak rate is 2pm to 8pm weekdays.

For each of these options SCE had calculated an annual cost estimate based upon her current usage TOU pattern. This values for the full year are reasonable, reflecting her solar generation, although the letter makes no mention of her having solar and Net Metering.

Option 1 $500.
Option 2 $180.
Option 3 $50.

Her question to me: Why should I not choose Option 3? My answer: yes indeed Option 3 is what you want, not Option 1.

I have not received this letter (yet), but because I am on TOU-DT already by choice, I may not get one.

I have also heard from local solar installers that as of Fall 2017, new PV installations are being forced onto a TOU tariff. Are they given a choice of Option 1 or Option 3? If just Option 1, that is really bad for solar and/or EV charging, because you don't get the high price for generating power before 5pm.

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:59 am
by JeremyW
A cool document from the CAISO on updating the time of use periods can be found here.

As you can see, with increasing solar, the middle of the day becomes off peak or super off peak. For net metering customers this means you will have to put an increasingly large number of kWh during this time to get a kWh back during the early evening. Even though net metering will continue to exist, a home battery is going to look more and more favorable.

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:54 am
by smkettner
tbleakne wrote:New push from SCE for Time-of-Use.
I am on TOU-D-A

Summary of rates can be found here:
SCE TOU Rates

The real issue is how much power can you shift to off-peak and super-off-peak. We keep our thermostat pretty high in Summer on-peak and quite low during super off-peak. This cools the house for a good nights' sleep and mostly allows the house to coast through the day without A/C. Dishwasher runs every night on the timer while we sleep. Car charges at night only. Most lighting is LED with dimmers. Laundry gets done on the weekends.

Our energy charge for the year was $260 for using 6,339 kWh from Edison and solar production of about 5,000 kWh.
Net cost from SCE was 4.1 cents per kWh. This was achieved by conserving usage and selling our solar at the on-peak rates and purchasing most usage at super-off-peak rates. I have just 3 kW in solar panels. So much better than the tiered rates.

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:17 am
by smkettner
JeremyW wrote:A cool document from the CAISO on updating the time of use periods can be found here.

As you can see, with increasing solar, the middle of the day becomes off peak or super off peak. For net metering customers this means you will have to put an increasingly large number of kWh during this time to get a kWh back during the early evening. Even though net metering will continue to exist, a home battery is going to look more and more favorable.

I have been anticipating these changes for a few years. Will be interesting when and how they are actually implemented.
Yes battery to get through the top rate in comfort will be very compelling. Will actually help the system as the timing of supply and demand shift.

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:43 pm
by tbleakne
Yes you want to look at the SCE link posted by smkettner, which is not that easy to find on SCE web site:

https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/rates/Time-Of-Use-Residential-Rate-Plans//url

On Peak
TOU-D-A 2-8pm weekdays all year, summer on-peak $.48/kWh, off-peak $.27-.28
TOU-D-T 12-6pm weekdays all year, summer on-peak $.37 Tier 1, $.42 Tier 2, off-peak $.22-.23

However, TOU-D-T is also Tiered all year, with second tier for usage > 130% of Baseline.
I was wrong; I have been on TOU-D-A as well for some time, and it has worked well for me, as I have previously reported, because I break-even on production vs consumption during On-peak, make profit on off-peak.

My friend was apparently randomly selected to be part of "first wave" as explained at

https://www.insideedison.com/stories/q-a-time-of-use-rate-plan-transitions-begin-in-2018:

Southern California Edison is preparing to transition 400,000 residential customer accounts to Time-of-Use rate plans next March as part of a statewide initiative.

Beginning in December, SCE will notify customers in this first wave of transitions that they’ve been randomly selected to participate. These customers will receive multiple communications before the actual transition in March. They will have the option to either remain on their current rate, transition to a specified TOU rate or switch to a different TOU rate offering.

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:13 pm
by tbleakne
Thanks to JeremyW for posting CAISO link about future of TOU. They project forward to 2021. I liked this:
Rooftop Solar PV (ISO’s initial analysis assumed less than 5,000 MW, however the current estimate is in excess of 10,000 MW by 2021


They propose a 4th price, Super On Peak, for 4pm to 9pm Weekdays July and Aug only. Super Off peak 10am to 4pm for all weekends except those two months, plus weekdays Mar and April.

Sure this will incentivize batteries, but it is not clear whether they will really pay for themselves over their limited lifetimes.

I talked to a Powerwall 2 rep at Tesla Buena Park last Saturday. They have begun doing residential installs, 4 to 6 month backlog. To appease SCE and other utilities, Tesla has programmed the Powerwall to only charge from surplus solar power, not from the grid, to minimize the arbitrage. The Powerwall is controlled by an App on your phone. Key parameters you can set include depth of discharge and top of charge. The full capacity of the Powerwall 2 is 13 kWh, but you need to set generous margins at the top and bottom of the battery if you want the battery to last through years of daily cycling.