smkettner
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:33 pm

I agree the best of times will soon be behind us. My system has fully recovered the install cost so even if the return is lower the solar will still help.

I have been super chilling the house during the hottest times during the super off peak hours. This probably used far more power than otherwise needed but it comes at the lowest cost. Often both my air units would run non stop from 2 am to 6 am so that I could coast through the day to make the 8 pm cut. These new rates will make this a bit easier to chill the house during the day and probably even make 10 pm to begin cooling in earnest to get a good night sleep.

Will be easy to move some appliance use to daylight hours for lower rates. I mostly charge the car at work at no cost to me.

The writing has been on the wall for some time as more utility energy is made with solar power during the day at a lower cost. Expensive fossil fuels now focus on carrying the grid into the evening and through the night.

The TOU switch may also make a home battery a bit more lucrative to save solar production to power into the evenings. Selling low and buying high will get old fairly quick.

Currently I only produce 50% of my energy to almost zero out my annual bill. Times are changing.
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Valdemar
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:02 pm

I agree with the analysis. This will make solar a more difficult sell I think but overall this is a move in the right direction as it will hopefully make battery storage more popular which will help to stabilize the grid. I'm one of those with an EV meter, now decommissioned since we got solar. Overall it paid for itself before we got solar so no regrets, but there is now little hope it might be useful in any way in the future. My solar offset is 70-80% but the bills are 0 due to credits, not counting non-avoidable charges.

All in all this may work out acceptably as expect my Leaf to end its useful life in a year or 2 which will coincide with the TOU-D-A grandfathering expiration. By that time our solar array will pay for itself and I will need to ponder if getting another EV makes sense under the new TOU realities. The absence of an EV will save about 4000kWh a year which should then help to keep the bills low. Yes, long term solar ROI will suffer but we all knew this day would come.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
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Valdemar
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:36 pm

Boomer23 wrote:But don’t be too relieved if you’re in one of the grandfathered plans. The site clearly states that most currently in grandfathered TOU plans will only be grandfathered until late 2020 (other research indicates this date is October 2020). The only exceptions are customers whose solar systems went live recently (prior to March 1) and they’ll have 5 year grandfathering from the live date of their system.
So most of us with older solar systems will only be grandfathered until Oct 2020.


My understanding is that all grandfathered rates will expire on 7/31/2022 or sooner depending on the permission to operate date. This doesn't give full 5 years for systems that went live after 8/1/2017. Also it seems those w/out solar but who were already on legacy TOU before 3/1/2019 might have until Q4 2020 to install new solar systems and remain grandfathered until 7/31/2022, if they don't install solar by Q4 2020 they will be transitioned to the new TOU rates at that time.

https://youtu.be/81BVsLEoNv8?t=771
https://www.energytoolbase.com/newsroom ... te-changes
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

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Boomer23
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:50 pm

I just did some quick calculations using TOU-PRIME. This rate plan has such simple details that it makes it pretty easy to estimate your yearly cost if you have your annual usage and your annual solar generation. That’s where the good news ends, though. My calculations yielded annual costs for our household of between $1300 and $1600.

Since the rate plan charges 13 cents/kWh except between 4 pm to 9 pm, I just subtracted my solar output from my total usage and multiplied the remainder by 13 cents. Then, assuming that I won’t be able to keep my 4pm to 9 pm usage to zero, I assumed a usage of 2 kW per hour during those 5 hours per day. I multiplied 2 kWh times 5 hours times 365 days, and then I added the $12/mo monthly charge. I realized that I need to subtract that 10 kWh per day from my total usage in the first part.

We might make a few dollars back from credits for solar generated after 4 pm during summers, but I don’t expect that to amount to much.

Anyway, I’m not thrilled with the results I’m getting, even with this PRIME plan. At least this’ll give me some information to go forward with in deciding whether to get home battery storage.

EDIT: I did a few further calculations using my data from 2016, 2017 and 2018 using the PRIME rates, and things looked better. We had a very heavy usage year in 2018, and my estimate for that year came up with $1,000 cost for the year using PRIME as long as we keep our AC use low during the 4-9 Peak hours (we might very well not be able to do that). I also noticed that we do generate some energy after 4 pm during Peak hours, and that might earn us some valuable credits.
Looking at other years when we used less power and less AC, my estimates have us closer to $500 per year. That’s not terrible for running a busy household with two EVs. But it’s a big change from paying basically nothing for the past 12 years.
Last edited by Boomer23 on Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Valdemar
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:04 pm

I'm not convinced that the PRIME plan is better for solar due to off-peak being much lower than on-peak compared to other plans, also there is no baseline credit and higher daily basic charge.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

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Boomer23
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:47 pm

You may well be correct.

Still, those other plans have no good rates for car charging.

At least we have a year or so to do some detailed analysis and figure which is best for solar and EV both.
2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range RWD
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Valdemar
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:39 am

When the time comes I will ask SCE if they will allow me to have a different rate assigned to my EV meter aggregated with the main meter on NEM terms, that way I could maybe benefit from lower rates at night for EV charging combined with solar. I doubt they will, but it was an option with the legacy TOU rates.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

smkettner
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:55 am

Actually I think the abundance low cost solar energy during the day will help business and the economy. While this does not always help home solar generators... the switch will be for the best. With any luck wind, hydro and batteries will supply power overnight even if it comes at a higher cost.

I have an idea the utilities that have fought against home solar will soon realize they can put the expansion of home solar out of business with large utility scale solar producing power at a lower cost.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
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KeiJidosha
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:17 pm

Valdemar wrote:Anyone here being transitioned to the Clean Power Alliance for energy source? Thoughts? Generally seems like not much difference, however the rub with me is that they reset the NEM period for solar customers and because I usually rack up additional credits during Spring for the end of my true-up in May that erase my charges I'd have to pay SCE a couple hundred based on the early Feb 1 transition rate. Not cool. I think I'm opting out.

So here is a data point. This is my first bill from SCE where Clean Power Alliance, our new Community Choice Aggregation (CCA ), is the energy provider. SCE still does the Delivery and Billing. I chose the 100% renewable “Green Energy” plan.

https://cleanpoweralliance.org/rate-options/

I used 638 kWh over 32 days. 63% Super Off-Peak (for the car), 29% Off-Peak and 8% Peak (everything else).

CPA “Generation” charges totaled $28.83 and SCE “Delivery” charges totaled $82.64.

Generation costs averaged 4.5¢ /kWh and Delivery cost averaged 13¢ /kWh.

Apparently, Manufacturing power is cheap. It's the Shipping costs that are expensive :?
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Boomer23
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:12 pm

You made the environmentally responsible choice given that solar isn’t a good option for you, but Uncle Edison sure makes sure he gets his cut, right?

By the way, I miss seeing you on FB and bumping into you at meetups and focus groups. Hope all is still fantastic with you.

I keep getting aced out of focus groups lately. I’m thinking the big 70 in the Age field on the screening form is a big factor. Grrr. Or sometimes they tell me they have enough males and they’re looking for females. I try to speak in a higher register, but it never works. :D
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