lilly
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:55 am
Delivery Date: 25 Dec 2017

EVSE that stops recharging when battery at capacity?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:30 pm

I noticed when using chargepoint that their chargers don't stop charging when the battery is finished charging. This damages the batteries.

I would like to buy an EVSE that can be used to charge a 2018 Leaf and a Tesla Model 3. I plan on getting the Tesla model 3 with the smallest battery. What EVSE is compatible for both vehicles and will stop charging when it is finished charging?

I saw an Aerovironment 7.7 kw, 32 A EVSE with 25 ft cable on Amazon that looked just like the one at my NIssan Dealership. Is that good?

What about the Clipper Creek HCS-40P, Plug-in 32 Amp Level 2 EVSE, 240V, NEMA 14-50 plug, with 25 ft cable? I noticed that the Clipper Creek is "made in America".

If these are no good, are there any others that you'd recommend? I want it to stop charging when finished and also I want to be able to charge to 80% or 100%, on my choice.

Thanks.

cwerdna
Posts: 7833
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: EVSE that stops recharging when battery at capacity?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:49 pm

lilly wrote:I noticed when using chargepoint that their chargers don't stop charging when the battery is finished charging.

Sure it does. When the car is done charging, the car's on-board charger terminates charging.

You are also looking for an EVSE, not a charger: viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630.
lilly wrote: want it to stop charging when finished and also I want to be able to charge to 80% or 100%, on my choice.

There's nothing in the J1772 standard (https://openev.freshdesk.com/support/so ... -sae-j1772) to let the EVSE know the state of charge of the connected vehicle. It can't know.

About your only choices are to use an EVSE that can let you terminate the charging early by kWh dispensed or at a/after a certain time. You will have to sort of guesstimate. You can also achieve this w/the charging timers.

(DC fast charging uses totally different protocols. The external unit (a charger) can know % SoC.)

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

lilly
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:55 am
Delivery Date: 25 Dec 2017

Re: EVSE that stops recharging when battery at capacity?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:22 pm

cwerdna wrote:
lilly wrote:
There's nothing in the J1772 standard (https://openev.freshdesk.com/support/so ... -sae-j1772) to let the EVSE know the state of charge of the connected vehicle. It can't know.

The EVSE that came with the car, the 110 v trickle charger automatically shuts off after the car finishes charging.

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: EVSE that stops recharging when battery at capacity?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:30 pm

lilly wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
lilly wrote:
There's nothing in the J1772 standard (https://openev.freshdesk.com/support/so ... -sae-j1772) to let the EVSE know the state of charge of the connected vehicle. It can't know.

The EVSE that came with the car, the 110 v trickle charger automatically shuts off after the car finishes charging.



He meant that you can't select an 80% charge limit, or anything other than 100%. Older Leafs that had a limit did that themselves - it wasn't the EVSE.

As for charging stations, if you don't want extra bell & whistles, get the Clipper Creek. Weatherproof, US - made, three year warranty. If you want to be able to stop charging remotely, there are a couple of choices there with which I am not familiar.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 7833
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: EVSE that stops recharging when battery at capacity?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:39 pm

lilly wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
lilly wrote:
There's nothing in the J1772 standard (https://openev.freshdesk.com/support/so ... -sae-j1772) to let the EVSE know the state of charge of the connected vehicle. It can't know.

The EVSE that came with the car, the 110 v trickle charger automatically shuts off after the car finishes charging.

And what evidence do you have to support the below?
lilly wrote:I noticed when using chargepoint that their chargers don't stop charging when the battery is finished charging. This damages the batteries.

I already told you a connected J1772 EVSE (including the L1 120 volt trickle charge EVSE) doesn't know the connected car's state of charge. This is true of all L1 and L2 J1772 EVSEs for AC charging.

This is from page EVB-23 of the '13 Leaf service manual.
evb-23.png

Probably 99% of the kWh delivered to my '13 Leaf during the time I've owned it and for the 2 years I leased a previous '13 Leaf were dispensed by Chargepoint L2 EVSEs.

Maybe someone can comment on whether https://emotorwerks.com/products/chargi ... s/juicebox via their app can achieve the below.
cwerdna wrote:About your only choices are to use an EVSE that can let you terminate the charging early by kWh dispensed or at a/after a certain time. You will have to sort of guesstimate. You can also achieve this w/the charging timers.

https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/home/ might be able to, as well since their table mentions scheduling.
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'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

lilly
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:55 am
Delivery Date: 25 Dec 2017

Re: EVSE that stops recharging when battery at capacity?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:23 am

cwerdna wrote:
lilly wrote:
cwerdna wrote:

The EVSE that came with the car, the 110 v trickle charger automatically shuts off after the car finishes charging.

And what evidence do you have to support the below?
lilly wrote:I noticed when using chargepoint that their chargers don't stop charging when the battery is finished charging. This damages the batteries.

I already told you a connected J1772 EVSE (including the L1 120 volt trickle charge EVSE) doesn't know the connected car's state of charge. This is true of all L1 and L2 J1772 EVSEs for AC charging.

This is from page EVB-23 of the '13 Leaf service manual.
evb-23.png

Probably 99% of the kWh delivered to my '13 Leaf during the time I've owned it and for the 2 years I leased a previous '13 Leaf were dispensed by Chargepoint L2 EVSEs.

Maybe someone can comment on whether https://emotorwerks.com/products/chargi ... s/juicebox via their app can achieve the below.
cwerdna wrote:About your only choices are to use an EVSE that can let you terminate the charging early by kWh dispensed or at a/after a certain time. You will have to sort of guesstimate. You can also achieve this w/the charging timers.

https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/home/ might be able to, as well since their table mentions scheduling.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ganccze8ywtsu ... 6.png?dl=0
Last edited by lilly on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

cwerdna
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Re: EVSE that stops recharging when battery at capacity?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:09 pm

lilly wrote:I noticed when using chargepoint that their chargers don't stop charging when the battery is finished charging. This damages the batteries.


Nope. That has nothing to do with what you claim and isn't Chargepoint specific.

2013 to 2017 Leafs (don't know about '18) have up to 3 bounces at the end when charging to 100%. Eventually, it'll go to 0, usually after the 3rd bounce.

It's been discussed at viewtopic.php?p=338038#p338038 before. Unfortunately, that 1 minute resolution graph is gone now. You can see something kinda similar in Leaf Spy when near full.

Arnis is in Estonia and Chargepoint didn't even exist outside North America until very recently.

Some have speculated (err... some assert that it is) that the bounces are some sort of battery balancing. '11 and '12 Leafs had a different charging profile and it's possible the reason for the bounces is at viewtopic.php?f=31&t=21628&hilit=beer+wait. '11 and '12 Leaf had 73 mile EPA range rating on 100% charge while '13 to '15 are 84 miles. Part of the improvement might be due to that charging algorithm.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
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Re: EVSE that stops recharging when battery at capacity?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:20 pm

Some have speculated (err... some assert that it is) that the bounces are some sort of battery balancing.


It's the same sort of top-balancing behavior that is seen in most of not all lithium packs, so yes, I assert that it's top balancing.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 7833
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: EVSE that stops recharging when battery at capacity?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:24 am

lilly: If you watch the Chargepoint graphs, after the 3 bounces are over, assuming you don't climate control via timer or remotely, charging should stop and power draw should be flatline at or near 0.

Every single '13 to '17 Leaf I've plugged in at work on our Chargepoint L2 EVSEs has this behavior when charging to 100%. If the Leaf is set to stop at 80% via car's UI (which Nissan removed on US '14 Leafs and beyond), power is cut abruptly. There is no taper and no bounce.

In either case, there is about a 15 minute delay (almost certainly intentional by Chargepoint) from when Leaf stops charging (in both the 80% and 100% case w/bounces) and sends its notification vs. when Chargepoint tells you charging is complete.

Example message below:
We wanted to let you know that your vehicle, which is charging at ______, is drawing very little power. Typically, this means it's fully charged, however, it may also indicate that your vehicle is configured for delayed charging. Your vehicle has accepted 14.63 kWh of electricity and has been plugged in for 03:40:14 (hh:mm:ss).

viewtopic.php?p=493874#p493874 has finer resolution than what Chargepoint provides. viewtopic.php?p=448160#p448160 has a graph from Juicebox.

I finally was able to find the post of a guy who is trying to get his EVSE to stop early, programmatically: viewtopic.php?t=23741. I embarrassingly, hadn't read his lengthy post. This is the type of crap people have to resort to if they want to limit charge level due to Nissan's removal of 80% option and J1772 protocol limitations. Otherwise, people have to improvise and guesstimate via timers/more flexible EVSEs.

Also see page 42 of https://openev.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/a ... 6004101512.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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