SageBrush
Posts: 2685
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Electrify America Network

Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:22 pm

I was curious about pricing.
The EA station at Walmart in AK is $1 to start and 35 cents a minute.

So e.g. a LEAF with a hot battery that takes on 15 kWh at 22 kW will pay 1+0.35*60*15/22 = $15.32
Around 25 cents a mile

Silver lining: it is faster and cheaper than getting towed.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 9104
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:39 pm

SageBrush wrote:I was curious about pricing.
The EA station at Walmart in AK is $1 to start and 35 cents a minute.

So e.g. a LEAF with a hot battery that takes on 15 kWh at 22 kW will pay 1+0.35*60*15/22 = $15.32
Around 25 cents a mile

Silver lining: it is faster and cheaper than getting towed.

There seems little reason for a car limited to 50kW or slower charging to use one of the 150kW or higher rate chargers at these sites, but I am glad that we've finally got some pricing info, as it will determine the success of the network. I was thrown at first by the reference to "AK", as I was unaware that EA was building any QCs in Alaska, but realized it was a ref. to Arkansas (AR) fairly quickly :lol:
Last edited by GRA on Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13140
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:00 am

GRA wrote:#9, Huntington, OR is open. Why now, I'm not sure, because it's out in the middle of nowhere all by its lonesome. Heyburn, ID 240 miles away is listed as coming soon, but it's not as if there's likely to be a lot of BEVs located in the area that can reach it either at the moment, and Albany, OR is 379 miles away by the shortest (non-Interstate) route.


Its all part of a highway so just as important as any link in a chain. As to why its one of the first? Well, in a chain, location is equally as important as any other. Its obviously first because the permitting and construction hurdles were easier to negotiate.

After all this time, being surprised that Oregon is first for EV support is...well unusual.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GRA
Posts: 9104
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:35 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GRA wrote:#9, Huntington, OR is open. Why now, I'm not sure, because it's out in the middle of nowhere all by its lonesome. Heyburn, ID 240 miles away is listed as coming soon, but it's not as if there's likely to be a lot of BEVs located in the area that can reach it either at the moment, and Albany, OR is 379 miles away by the shortest (non-Interstate) route.


Its all part of a highway so just as important as any link in a chain. As to why its one of the first? Well, in a chain, location is equally as important as any other. Its obviously first because the permitting and construction hurdles were easier to negotiate.

After all this time, being surprised that Oregon is first for EV support is...well unusual.

Building a chain from the middle outwards rather than expanding from one or both ends in is not generally very useful, and as there aren't any other QCs in Oregon or Idaho that are listed as coming soon that would connect to this chain (or any major urban area where the cars it will serve are clustered), it does seem extremely odd to build here now.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13140
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:15 pm

GRA wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GRA wrote:#9, Huntington, OR is open. Why now, I'm not sure, because it's out in the middle of nowhere all by its lonesome. Heyburn, ID 240 miles away is listed as coming soon, but it's not as if there's likely to be a lot of BEVs located in the area that can reach it either at the moment, and Albany, OR is 379 miles away by the shortest (non-Interstate) route.


Its all part of a highway so just as important as any link in a chain. As to why its one of the first? Well, in a chain, location is equally as important as any other. Its obviously first because the permitting and construction hurdles were easier to negotiate.

After all this time, being surprised that Oregon is first for EV support is...well unusual.

Building a chain from the middle outwards rather than expanding from one or both ends in is not generally very useful, and as there aren't any other QCs in Oregon or Idaho that are listed as coming soon that would connect to this chain (or any major urban area where the cars it will serve are clustered), it does seem extremely odd to build here now.


Sounds like you need to apply at EA then!
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 2685
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:37 pm

I think that the middle of nowhere EA locations is just a case of those locations getting through the permitting process and having the infrastructure ready to go soonest; it does not represent an intent by EA to start there on purpose.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 9104
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:51 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GRA wrote:Building a chain from the middle outwards rather than expanding from one or both ends in is not generally very useful, and as there aren't any other QCs in Oregon or Idaho that are listed as coming soon that would connect to this chain (or any major urban area where the cars it will serve are clustered), it does seem extremely odd to build here now.

Sounds like you need to apply at EA then!

If I could still hear well enough to interact with people verbally in a business setting, I could see doing that. As it is, unless it's written, forget it. I had some legal stuff to deal with recently, and I got about one word out of ten that the lawyer said (he tended to run his words together and not enunciate clearly, plus his voice was low-pitched enough that I mostly just got a rumble). Fortunately I had someone else with me who could give me the highlights later.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

stutech
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:38 am
Delivery Date: 28 May 2018
Leaf Number: 309018
Location: South Jordan, UT

Re: Electrify America Network

Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:49 am

GRA wrote:#9, Huntington, OR is open. Why now, I'm not sure, because it's out in the middle of nowhere all by its lonesome. Heyburn, ID 240 miles away is listed as coming soon, but it's not as if there's likely to be a lot of BEVs located in the area that can reach it either at the moment, and Albany, OR is 379 miles away by the shortest (non-Interstate) route.



The Heyburn, ID station is an important station for anyone going from Salt Lake City to Boise, as I often do from time to time. My family lives in Boise and going back and forth costs a mint in gasoline with my regular ICE car. I would much prefer to take my 2018 leaf but currently I can only make it to the Heyburn area safely from the last Chademo station in the Salt Lake Area. I think that is why Electrify America choose this area as one of the first as it is so lacking in charging resources in rural Idaho. Idaho in general though has yet to have a single non dealer owned chademo at all, even in the Boise area. It gets really irritating finding that Tesla has a charger in Tremonton, UT and Twin Falls, ID and Boise, ID however for us regular ev users that are non tesla we are out of luck. I can tell you the Boise area has tons of leafs so it's very odd that more non level 2 infrastructure hasn't been built. Also yes I am a new member, but a long time lurker here I thought I would share this info as I am not sure how many other people here are frequenting this "middle of nowhere area" as you guys put it. :D

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13140
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Electrify America Network

Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:19 am

stutech wrote:
GRA wrote:#9, Huntington, OR is open. Why now, I'm not sure, because it's out in the middle of nowhere all by its lonesome. Heyburn, ID 240 miles away is listed as coming soon, but it's not as if there's likely to be a lot of BEVs located in the area that can reach it either at the moment, and Albany, OR is 379 miles away by the shortest (non-Interstate) route.



The Heyburn, ID station is an important station for anyone going from Salt Lake City to Boise, as I often do from time to time. My family lives in Boise and going back and forth costs a mint in gasoline with my regular ICE car. I would much prefer to take my 2018 leaf but currently I can only make it to the Heyburn area safely from the last Chademo station in the Salt Lake Area. I think that is why Electrify America choose this area as one of the first as it is so lacking in charging resources in rural Idaho. Idaho in general though has yet to have a single non dealer owned chademo at all, even in the Boise area. It gets really irritating finding that Tesla has a charger in Tremonton, UT and Twin Falls, ID and Boise, ID however for us regular ev users that are non tesla we are out of luck. I can tell you the Boise area has tons of leafs so it's very odd that more non level 2 infrastructure hasn't been built. Also yes I am a new member, but a long time lurker here I thought I would share this info as I am not sure how many other people here are frequenting this "middle of nowhere area" as you guys put it. :D


Look at EA's website. despite the confusion by some here, the placement of the stations are obvious. All part of a route...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GRA
Posts: 9104
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:22 am

stutech wrote:
GRA wrote:#9, Huntington, OR is open. Why now, I'm not sure, because it's out in the middle of nowhere all by its lonesome. Heyburn, ID 240 miles away is listed as coming soon, but it's not as if there's likely to be a lot of BEVs located in the area that can reach it either at the moment, and Albany, OR is 379 miles away by the shortest (non-Interstate) route.

The Heyburn, ID station is an important station for anyone going from Salt Lake City to Boise, as I often do from time to time. My family lives in Boise and going back and forth costs a mint in gasoline with my regular ICE car. I would much prefer to take my 2018 leaf but currently I can only make it to the Heyburn area safely from the last Chademo station in the Salt Lake Area. I think that is why Electrify America choose this area as one of the first as it is so lacking in charging resources in rural Idaho. Idaho in general though has yet to have a single non dealer owned chademo at all, even in the Boise area. It gets really irritating finding that Tesla has a charger in Tremonton, UT and Twin Falls, ID and Boise, ID however for us regular ev users that are non tesla we are out of luck. I can tell you the Boise area has tons of leafs so it's very odd that more non level 2 infrastructure hasn't been built. Also yes I am a new member, but a long time lurker here I thought I would share this info as I am not sure how many other people here are frequenting this "middle of nowhere area" as you guys put it. :D

The thing is, while this site will help you in your particular situation, the number of non-Tesla BEVs is small in this area compared to others. For instance, it's 345 miles from Portland to Huntington, OR, and there are far more BEVs in the Portland area than in SLC so expanding out from there should be the priority. Huntington is beyond non-Tesla range from Portland (and even with a Tesla you'd better have an S100D or 3 LR and take it easy if you expect to make it using only SCs), and SLC-Heyburn is pushing Bolt range given UT/ID freeway speeds and the 1,100 ft. climb along the way.

I have nothing against putting QCs in places like Huntington and Heyburn, indeed they'll be needed there, but you really want one in between Heyburn and SLC first, in Ogden or Tremonton, as it's 182 miles between SLC and Heyburn, and the network is supposed to have a max. spacing of 120 miles and average 70 miles - anything other than a Bolt can't make it (I-Pace and e-Tron Quattro as well once they're available). Even so, it would make far more sense to put a QC in Hood River or Biggs first, then Pendleton, Ontario and Nampa or Boise, and even more sense to connect Portland and Seattle first - see the heat map for the Bolt here: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9111&start=1740#p532907

Salt Lake has some BEVs, but Denver and Dallas have more and Portland and Seattle more yet, then there's California and the NE corridor or the Tampa-Orlando axis which are in a whole other category.
Last edited by GRA on Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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