Kbhag63
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L1 vs L2 charging cost

Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:38 pm

I couldn’t find any forum info on my question so:

With regards to cost to charge, is it less expensive to use an L1 charger from 40% to 100% or an L2 from 40% to 100%?

The L1 takes longer but at lower voltage, L2 is faster but at higher voltage.

Thanks in advance!

Ken, CT

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Nubo
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Re: L1 vs L2 charging cost

Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:11 pm

L2 is generally more efficient than L1, as I understand it. There is overhead involved in powering the coolant pump. Running the pump for 3 hours instead of 12 is a savings.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

LeftieBiker
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Re: L1 vs L2 charging cost

Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:43 pm

Dumbass myth I repeated (having heard from an electrician when young) while half-awake removed.
Last edited by LeftieBiker on Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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theothertom
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Re: L1 vs L2 charging cost

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:49 pm

You pay for Kilowatt hours, regardless of voltage.
As Nubo said, L2 tends to be more efficient than L1 so in general you'll pay less if you use L2.

cwerdna
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Re: L1 vs L2 charging cost

Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:26 pm

Kbhag63 wrote:With regards to cost to charge, is it less expensive to use an L1 charger from 40% to 100% or an L2 from 40% to 100%?

Charging efficiency is better at the higher voltage. Using L1 would cost you more in electricity.

See https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files ... 12Leaf.pdf and https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files ... 15Leaf.pdf, for example.

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alozzy
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Re: L1 vs L2 charging cost

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:00 pm

A quick Google search reveals that Connecticut has cheap electricity rates, so use whatever charging rate you prefer and don't worry about the efficiency.

It's pretty hard to justify the expenditure for an L2 EVSE, if your only consideration is saving money because buying and installing the L2 EVSE will cost you at least $1000.

At $0.10 per kWh, if you assume that L1 charging is 20% more efficient than L2 charging, then you would save $0.02 per kWh. So, after 50,000 kWhs of charging at L2, you would finally break even on the L2 EVSE (or roughly after 2500 full charges on your LEAF).

The main reason to charge at L2 is for convenience, which for me is worth the expense
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: L1 vs L2 charging cost

Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:46 am

Kbhag63 wrote:I couldn’t find any forum info on my question so:

With regards to cost to charge, is it less expensive to use an L1 charger from 40% to 100% or an L2 from 40% to 100%?

The L1 takes longer but at lower voltage, L2 is faster but at higher voltage.

Thanks in advance!

Ken, CT


At the very least; you should mention your LEAF battery size, your utility rates and profile (TOU?)


Level 2 is cheaper by roughly 15% but that isn't really the important issue. L1 can run OVER a day to charge your car verses half a night on L2.

So now it becomes a matter of convenience and usability. L2 prices are dropping. Costco has a good deal for under $400. It will take decades to get that $400 back if your rates are reasonable but your stress level will be much lower.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
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GlennD
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Re: L1 vs L2 charging cost

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:11 pm

I agree that L1 charging times are a joke. L1 only works for short trips. I have one of the few cars that charge at 40A. 10KWH really beats the default L1 8A or even 12A at 129V.. A THING THAT REALLY GETS ME IS THE PERSON THAT BUYS A HIGHER CURRENT EVSE THINKING IT WILL CHARGE FASTER. AS LONG AS EQUAL OR MORE CURRENT IS AVAILABLE THE CAR SETS THE CHARGE RATE. tN TH CASE OF THE LEAF IT IS EITHER 16A OR 27.5A. FOR EXAMPLE A 40A EVSE IS WASTED MONEY. 30A IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.

At 240 the fixed overhead of the cooling pumps fades. Since it is fixed then any scheme like L2 charging minibuses it. It still exists but it it as much smaller percent of L2. L3 is yet another ball game. Its safety protocols are very real. L3 bypasses the car charger and it charges the battery directly. I assume it still uses the cooling pumps since it generates quite a bit of heat.
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RonDawg
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Re: L1 vs L2 charging cost

Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:45 pm

GlennD wrote:A THING THAT REALLY GETS ME IS THE PERSON THAT BUYS A HIGHER CURRENT EVSE THINKING IT WILL CHARGE FASTER. AS LONG AS EQUAL OR MORE CURRENT IS AVAILABLE THE CAR SETS THE CHARGE RATE. tN TH CASE OF THE LEAF IT IS EITHER 16A OR 27.5A. FOR EXAMPLE A 40A EVSE IS WASTED MONEY. 30A IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.


There's also a school of thought (that I've also seen on this very forum) that if you can, go with a higher amperage circuit and EVSE. While it won't make any 2018 or earlier Leaf charge faster, as battery size increases I suspect on board charging speeds will increase as well, to keep charging times reasonable. If Elon finally releases the "$35k" Model 3, such charging speeds will become a reality for more people.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
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GlennD
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Re: L1 vs L2 charging cost

Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:21 am

RonDawg wrote:
GlennD wrote:A THING THAT REALLY GETS ME IS THE PERSON THAT BUYS A HIGHER CURRENT EVSE THINKING IT WILL CHARGE FASTER. AS LONG AS EQUAL OR MORE CURRENT IS AVAILABLE THE CAR SETS THE CHARGE RATE. tN TH CASE OF THE LEAF IT IS EITHER 16A OR 27.5A. FOR EXAMPLE A 40A EVSE IS WASTED MONEY. 30A IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.


There's also a school of thought (that I've also seen on this very forum) that if you can, go with a higher amperage circuit and EVSE. While it won't make any 2018 or earlier Leaf charge faster, as battery size increases I suspect on board charging speeds will increase as well, to keep charging times reasonable. If Elon finally releases the "$35k" Model 3, such charging speeds will become a reality for more people.


I can see future proofing to some extent. Tesla's no longer come with 40A EVSE's. There was some problem with the current. I do not follow Tesla so I do not know any details.

I userd my 40A EVSE with my 30A VW with 10A wasted.
2012 Cayenne Red SL traded for:
2013 Pearl White SL Premium
Traded for a Cirrus White 2014 Mercedes B (totaled)
2016 Urano Gray eGolf SEL w/ drive assist
Loved the VW but it sat too low for my old body
Back to a Cirrus White 2017 B250e

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