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azdimy said:
Anybody else is concerned about the ratio of SAE combo/CHAdeMO this company installs?
I m looking at 12 ports coming online soon in my area and there will only be 1 CHAdeMO plug. Seems to me this is not representative of the EV on the roads today!
Back of the napkin sample from recent Plugshare checkins;

Prunedale has 6 CHAdeMO, 6 CCS connectors with 5 CHAdeMO and 37 CCS checkins
https://www.plugshare.com/location/163319
1-i3
28-Bolt
3-eGolf
3-I-Pace
1-Ioniq
4-LEAF
1-Tesla
1-Spark

Victorville has 2 CHAdeMO, 2 CCS connectors with 11 CHAdeMO and 82 CCS checkins;
https://www.plugshare.com/location/53655
11-i3
57-Bolt
3-eGolf
1-I-Pace
6-Ioniq
10-LEAF
2-Spark
1-Clarity
1-RAV4
1-Focus

Baker has 6 CHAdeMO, 6 CCS connectors with 19 CHAdeMO and 90 CCS checkins;
https://www.plugshare.com/location/157532
5-i3
70-Bolt
4-eGolf
1-I-Pace
6-Ioniq
14-LEAF
2-Tesla
1-Spark
2-RAV4
3-Focus
1-Soul

About 15% CHAdeMO and 85% CCS
 
KeiJidosha said:
About 15% CHAdeMO and 85% CCS

Hmm. At

https://www.plugshare.com/location/95447

4 CCS and 10 CHAdeMO.

Similar at:

https://www.plugshare.com/location/53959

Many of the other stations near me are CHAdeMO only.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/2694

https://www.plugshare.com/location/6147

https://www.plugshare.com/location/69581

So perhaps this is local, as are many things. Of course, not everyone checks in, I rarely do.


I suspect that CCS will win in the end, in the USA at least. Standards tend to reduce to one, with time, unless there is a compelling reason for different standards. VW and GM are likely to outproduce Nissan, and EA is installing a lot of CCS chargers.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
If I thought "most" checked in, that might be a good foundation for a rebuttal. I doubt the check in is even close to 20%
Agree there is no way for us to know how representative this sample is of actual activity. Would be interesting to know if existing charge network operators mine this data, and if it is used to influence future installations?
 
KeiJidosha said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
If I thought "most" checked in, that might be a good foundation for a rebuttal. I doubt the check in is even close to 20%
Agree there is no way for us to know how representative this sample is of actual activity. Would be interesting to know if existing charge network operators mine this data, and if it is used to influence future installations?

"no way" of knowing? Cmon, I glanced at two of the links you provided and TWO Bolters on both sites had over 25% of the check ins.

The other thing is a 6 station location 11 check ins since jan 1. so that is one every other day? at a mall, guessing a very busy one? This is simply useless data.
 
jdcbomb said:
I agree...EA rates are on the high side...almost double of what I would expect. But they've done a decent job of locating them close to popular highways outside of city centers generally.

They apparently want to become a profitable company after the VW settlement money runs out.
@JeffN can clarify, but my impression of the EA network is that VW puts up the money to install, and then maintain the network for (either 5 or 10) years. The consumer charges go to the lot owner to pay for electricity and profit.
 
Five more sites have opened, for 21 this month and 81 total: Mt. Home, ID (Jct. I-84/U.S. 20); Fountain, CO (I-25, just S. of Colorado Springs); Stafford. TX (S.R. 8 near I-69, SW of Houston); Williamsburg, IA (I-80 W. of Iowa City); Paducah, KY (Jct. I-24/U.S. 79).

With extreme care, it's just possible to get to Council Bluffs, IA (217 miles via I-80), Rockford (201 miles via I-80/88/39, but 190 using SR.2 for part) and/or Woodridge, IL (228 via I-80/88) from Williamsburg. Paducah makes it possible to drive with great care from St. Louis to Atlanta. Mt. Home connects to Elko (194 miles) and Huntington (138), so you could get to Pendleton and the Tri-Cities', FWIW. Fountain opens up Pueblo and, with extreme care, Taos (206 via I-25/U.S. 160/S.R's. 159 & 522) from the Denver Area. Stafford's on the way to Victoria from Houston and not much else, but it's currently the closest EA QC to I-10 in the Houston area, all three of which are at Walmarts. As there are numerous Walmarts around Houston, including some much closer to I-10, I'd expect at least one more in the area.
 
SageBrush said:
jdcbomb said:
I agree...EA rates are on the high side...almost double of what I would expect. But they've done a decent job of locating them close to popular highways outside of city centers generally.

They apparently want to become a profitable company after the VW settlement money runs out.
@JeffN can clarify, but my impression of the EA network is that VW puts up the money to install, and then maintain the network for (either 5 or 10) years. The consumer charges go to the lot owner to pay for electricity and profit.
I don’t know the exact arrangement between EA and the property owners but I assume EA pays some kind of lease for using the parking spaces. Also don’t know the exact arrangements around how the electricity is paid for. These details are not public as far as I know.
 
Huge variance in electricity rates across the country for a single rate structure. If the host is getting anything, I would think its a simple stipend per month or something. My guess, the host pays nothing and gets nothing.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
My guess, the host pays nothing and gets nothing.

They probably don't get compensation from Charge America, but they may get extra business at their store. If I were a business owner, I would want one in my parking lot to draw more customers (OK, I would use it to charge my car, too :) )
Edit: I've noticed in my region that a lot of these are at WalMart's. One more reason to go to WalMart, and one more reason not to go to Amazon :)
 
theothertom said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
My guess, the host pays nothing and gets nothing.

They probably don't get compensation from Charge America, but they may get extra business at their store. If I were a business owner, I would want one in my parking lot to draw more customers (OK, I would use it to charge my car, too :) )
Edit: I've noticed in my region that a lot of these are at WalMart's. One more reason to go to WalMart, and one less reason to go to Amazon :)
 
Now that Tesla has jacked their SC rates, they and EA are in spitting distance of each other, and for most U.S. drivers (not just Prius drivers) QCs/SCs are more expensive than gas.
 
GRA said:
Now that Tesla has jacked their SC rates, they and EA are in spitting distance of each other, and for most U.S. drivers (not just Prius drivers) QCs/SCs are more expensive than gas.

Teslaites complained so Mama T lowered the rates to 28 cents per k
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
GRA said:
Now that Tesla has jacked their SC rates, they and EA are in spitting distance of each other, and for most U.S. drivers (not just Prius drivers) QCs/SCs are more expensive than gas.

Teslaites complained so Mama T lowered the rates to 28 cents per k
Yup, a 10% decrease after a 33% increase. So, $0.28/kWh, divided by say 3 miles kWh (we're talking about SCs used for road trips, after all) works out to 9.33 cents/mile. If you have a Model 3 and can get 3.8 miles/kWh, that's still 7.4 cents/mile. At the U.S. national average of $2.25 & 3 m/kWh, if you get over 24.1 mpg, gas is cheaper. Here in California ($3.27) you need to get more than 35 mpg (44.2 for the Model 3 @ 3.8 m/kWh).
 
GRA said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
GRA said:
Now that Tesla has jacked their SC rates, they and EA are in spitting distance of each other, and for most U.S. drivers (not just Prius drivers) QCs/SCs are more expensive than gas.

Teslaites complained so Mama T lowered the rates to 28 cents per k
Yup, a 10% decrease after a 33% increase. So, $0.28/kWh, divided by say 3 miles kWh (we're talking about SCs used for road trips, after all) works out to 9.33 cents/mile. If you have a Model 3 and can get 3.8 miles/kWh, that's still 7.4 cents/mile. At the U.S. national average of $2.25 & 3 m/kWh, if you get over 24.1 mpg, gas is cheaper. Here in California ($3.27) you need to get more than 35 mpg (44.2 for the Model 3 @ 3.8 m/kWh).

Yeah but gas is a non negotiable 24/7 cost. Electricity is not.
 
GRA said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
GRA said:
Now that Tesla has jacked their SC rates, they and EA are in spitting distance of each other, and for most U.S. drivers (not just Prius drivers) QCs/SCs are more expensive than gas.

Teslaites complained so Mama T lowered the rates to 28 cents per k
Yup, a 10% decrease after a 33% increase. So, $0.28/kWh, divided by say 3 miles kWh (we're talking about SCs used for road trips, after all) works out to 9.33 cents/mile. If you have a Model 3 and can get 3.8 miles/kWh, that's still 7.4 cents/mile. At the U.S. national average of $2.25 & 3 m/kWh, if you get over 24.1 mpg, gas is cheaper. Here in California ($3.27) you need to get more than 35 mpg (44.2 for the Model 3 @ 3.8 m/kWh).
When I road trip my Model 3 LR I average 100 kW during charging, pay 28 cents a minute and consume 220 Wh/mile. That is true for the fraction of the trip not covered by my home charge or destination charging.

So e.g. if I start from home and travel 400 miles I pay $1.1 for the first 300 miles and $3.69 at the Supercharger for the last 100 miles for a combined cost of 1.2 cents a mile. The final cost is weighted between Supercharger and L2 charging costs but would not be more than 3.7 cents a mile and in practice is much less.
 
SageBrush said:
So e.g. if I start from home and travel 400 miles I pay $1.1 for the first 300 miles and $3.69 at the Supercharger for the last 100 miles for a combined cost of 1.2 cents a mile. The final cost is weighted between Supercharger and L2 charging costs but would not be more than 3.7 cents a mile and in practice is much less.

This weighting of costs is key. I travel with my Bolt on the EVGo network (and hopefully soon the EA network). Even when EVGo was much more expensive, it was still cheaper than using gas. The first 200 miles or so was covered by dirt-cheap electricity from home.
 
SageBrush said:
GRA said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Teslaites complained so Mama T lowered the rates to 28 cents per k
Yup, a 10% decrease after a 33% increase. So, $0.28/kWh, divided by say 3 miles kWh (we're talking about SCs used for road trips, after all) works out to 9.33 cents/mile. If you have a Model 3 and can get 3.8 miles/kWh, that's still 7.4 cents/mile. At the U.S. national average of $2.25 & 3 m/kWh, if you get over 24.1 mpg, gas is cheaper. Here in California ($3.27) you need to get more than 35 mpg (44.2 for the Model 3 @ 3.8 m/kWh).
When I road trip my Model 3 LR I average 100 kW during charging, pay 28 cents a minute and consume 220 Wh/mile. That is true for the fraction of the trip not covered by my home charge or destination charging.
I'm curious, at what speeds do you get 220Wh/m, i.e. is this freeway driving at 75 or 80? 220Wh/m would be at the lower end of what I've seen for freeway road trips the 3LR on TMC, although I don't follow that closely.
SageBrush said:
So e.g. if I start from home and travel 400 miles I pay $1.1 for the first 300 miles and $3.69 at the Supercharger for the last 100 miles for a combined cost of 1.2 cents a mile. The final cost is weighted between Supercharger and L2 charging costs but would not be more than 3.7 cents a mile and in practice is much less.
Provided you've got low-cost home charging it can still be a good deal, especially if you're only doing one SC. Every one past that adds up. I see Colorado's avg. price for gas is $2.09 today, so $2.09/53 (Prius Hwy) = 3.94 cents/mile so you're doing good. What was it raised to there before they dropped it again? BTW, if you're paying per minute, Tesla's SC site now says 26 cents/min. for Tier 2, 13 cents/min. for Tier 1.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
GRA said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Teslaites complained so Mama T lowered the rates to 28 cents per k
Yup, a 10% decrease after a 33% increase. So, $0.28/kWh, divided by say 3 miles kWh (we're talking about SCs used for road trips, after all) works out to 9.33 cents/mile. If you have a Model 3 and can get 3.8 miles/kWh, that's still 7.4 cents/mile. At the U.S. national average of $2.25 & 3 m/kWh, if you get over 24.1 mpg, gas is cheaper. Here in California ($3.27) you need to get more than 35 mpg (44.2 for the Model 3 @ 3.8 m/kWh).

Yeah but gas is a non negotiable 24/7 cost. Electricity is not.
Sure it's negotiable, I negotiate every time I choose where to get gas and what to pay. My closest station is $3.30/gal today, but the station I normally get gas at locally is $3.06, and the one I use if heading to Yosemite or the east side is $2.80. As I normally only use my car on trips, need I say which one I fill up at whenever I can? :lol: Utility-supplied electricity at home is non-negotiable, at least by a retail customer like me. similarly, if time allows and I have the choice between charging at an SC for $0.28/kWh or use an EvGo QC (nom. 50kW mostly) for $0.15/min. I'm going to opt for the latter if it's significantly cheaper. If time is a factor, then no.
 
GRA said:
I'm curious, at what speeds do you get 220Wh/m, i.e. is this freeway driving at 75 or 80? 220Wh/m would be at the lower end of what I've seen for freeway road trips the 3LR on TMC, although I don't follow that closely.
65 - 70 mph.
Bjorn Nyland recently posted a video comparing multiple EVs taking an 77 mile r/t at 75 mph. Results at 17:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=150Z4l69CBo

--
The discussions re: fuel prices for trips is one thing, but people should keep in mind that a more realistic discussion is to talk about per mile costs weighted over the year since it is quite uncommon for people to use the car *only* for road tripping. Moreover, cost discussions using this dip in petrol prices is particularly silly. Use a 5 year average.

E.g., in my case 90% of my miles are not road trips so the 20% bump in supercharger prices adds about 3% to my annual fuel bill for the car. From peanuts to 1.03*peanuts
 
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