Turnover
Gold Member
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 410371
Location: Vancouver, WA

Re: EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:50 pm

After an article in Charged EV's, I'm concerned that some of the EVSE's I've bought may not meet UL requirements. I've found approvals on my BLINK home unit and the L1 that came with my Leaf. I've paid quite a bit of money for my JESLA and a Go-Cable from Quick Charge Power as well as a Juicebox 40. Neither of the three seem to have UL or other electrical equipment safety endorsements. The article is "Buyers Beware" on Charged EVs. I'm not sure how concerned I should be. Any thoughts?
2012 SL:
03/30/16 43,300 mi - 383 QC's & 2467 L1/L2's 79% SOH
2013 SV (#410371) - Purchased 4/25/2016:
4/28/16 18,115 mi- 4 QC's & 705 L1/L2's 97% SOH
2/18/17 28,756 mi- 66.17 AHr, SOH 100%, Hx 101.45% 284 GiDs

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 9982
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:47 pm

powersurge wrote:If you buy a NON _UL listed charger, for a $500 box, are you willing to risk a $30K automobile, and possible a fire in your home? If for some fluke it went on fire, there are chances that your fire insurance would not pay because it was not UL Listed.


Great bunch of BS. Now, I'm not suggesting that UL listed stuff will put your $30k car at risk, but it sure put my $50k car and home at risk. Thank goodness that Blink station was UL listed when it tried to burn up my car.

And here's some other UL listed products that have melted: Link to UL listed Schneider EVSE melting and difficult to remove

UL Listed REMA brand plug:
Image


UL Listed REMA brand plug:
Image


UL Listed Yazaki brand inlet:
Image


UL Listed Yazaki brand inlet:
Image

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 9982
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:16 pm

Turnover wrote:After an article in Charged EV's, I'm concerned that some of the EVSE's I've bought may not meet UL requirements. I've found approvals on my BLINK home unit and the L1 that came with my Leaf. I've paid quite a bit of money for my JESLA and a Go-Cable from Quick Charge Power as well as a Juicebox 40. Neither of the three seem to have UL or other electrical equipment safety endorsements. The article is "Buyers Beware" on Charged EVs. I'm not sure how concerned I should be. Any thoughts?


First, let me thank you for your business. I guess if, due to that article, you were not comfortable with our quality charge equipment that isn't put on a list by a for-profit testing company like UL, you could always sell your stuff and buy only products that are UL listed.

You'll note that Charged EV magazine has no problem taking our money to advertise in their magazine. I just sent them a healthy sized check just today. The fear mongering in the article is as old as the human existence, but I am a bit dismayed at the factual errors.

The article seems to suggest that if a product isn't UL listed, it wasn't tested. That is either seriously naive, or a blatant lie. Sure, there some poor quality stuff out there, and some UL listed stuff is on that poor quality list.

I guess it comes down to this; do you think the well over 100,000 Tesla charge cables (that our JESLA is based on) are dangerous because Tesla never bothered to have them UL listed?

I'll get the popcorn and wait for the usual "your fire insurance is void" hogwash to come next.
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jjeff
Posts: 1303
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:45 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:. Sure, there some poor quality stuff out there, and some UL listed stuff is on that poor quality list....

+1, just because something has a UL sticker on it doesn't mean it's built to high quality standards, conversely just because something doesn't have a UL sticker on it doesn't mean it wasn't build to high quality standards. I've seen a fair number of things fail with the magic UL sticker, I've also purchased things without the sticker that work great to this day :)
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

Turnover
Gold Member
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 410371
Location: Vancouver, WA

Re: EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:53 am

Looks like the both the buyers and sellers have their concerns from their particular point of view. No, I haven't and my son hasn't had any trouble with the equipment I bought. Still, I paid good money for this equipment and I stand to loose big time if something goes wrong and don't care to be blown off even by folks I like.
2012 SL:
03/30/16 43,300 mi - 383 QC's & 2467 L1/L2's 79% SOH
2013 SV (#410371) - Purchased 4/25/2016:
4/28/16 18,115 mi- 4 QC's & 705 L1/L2's 97% SOH
2/18/17 28,756 mi- 66.17 AHr, SOH 100%, Hx 101.45% 284 GiDs

gatedad11
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:30 am
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2012

Re: EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:47 am

Let me clear one thing up, that seems to have become an issue: Neither your homeowner's insurance nor your auto insurance will deny a claim if a fire results from a non-UL product. There has to be a specific exclusion in the policy that states if a loss occurs due to failure of a non-UL approved product, that the damages are not covered. I have spent the bulk of my adult life as an insurance adjuster, have handled many H/O and auto claims(including fire losses)and I do not recall ever seeing any such exclusion. What might happen is that your H/O insurance company could(I guess)cancel your policy after the policy term expires (but even that is highly regulated and I cannot imagine why they would do that). People do all kinds of really stupid things and their insurance still covers the damages. Your mortgage company would still have a major financial interest in the property as would a lien holder for a car loan. Someone would have to show me the specific section and language that denies coverage here. Sounds like a load of bulls**t to me.

Lou

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davewill
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:04 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, US

Re: EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:16 pm

The way I look at it, UL listing is more important for high volume consumer goods where I KNOW that the manufacturer is highly motivated to cut corners. For high ticket items like EVSEs, I rely more on reviews in places like this and my overall impression of the company and unit.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

jjeff
Posts: 1303
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:46 pm

Speaking of non UL EVSEs :mrgreen: Just wanted to give a 2 month update on my 30a portable EVSE, ordered by me directly from China. I'm really liking it, use it every day with my '13S w/6.6kw charger and no issues. I mainly use it set to 30a which gives me 27.5a or about 30% gain per hour on my 24kwh battery. I also use it set to 20a which outputs ~18a and gives me about 20%/hr gain, I've also used the 13a setting which gains me about 15%/hr and is good for unknown or 15a outlets. Changing the current a bit odd(shake EVSE within 30? seconds of plugging in wall but not plugged into car and it will increment to the next setting) but isn't too hard and I've never had it change inadvertently.
Ordering directly from China probably isn't for everyone and I'd just have not done it but doing it that way got me the exact EVSE I wanted and saved me ~$100 or more from US resellers.
The j1772 cable being rated for >30a is kind of thick but I'm happy to report remained quite flexible even in sub zero MN temps, something I can't say about all EVSEs. Unfortunately like most EVSEs the short input cable did get quite stiff, still OK though because it's short. The EVSE's display is kind of cool, displaying not only set amps but actual output amps, actual input voltage, outside temp, current Kwh output and accumulated KWhs which unfortunately resets when you unplug it.
I really like the longer than normal 25' cable, along with the slightly longer input cable(I wanted and got a 2'+ input cable) I'm able to reach outlets ~28' away and has come in handy a couple of times.
I don't believe I posted my original post in this EVSE thread so I'll do it now:

Well I took the plunge, ordered one of those adjustable 30a EVSEs direct from the Chinese seller, Zencar. My salesperson was "Dream" who was pretty decent to work with and here are the specs I specifically wanted and got, in quotes are from seller:


"The EVSE box has display ,it measures voltage, current and accumulated charging power kWh.

J1772 ev plug + 13A/20A/32A EVSE + 8m cables + 6 - 30 plug FOB price is 300usd/pc. It has CE, TUV certification, 12 months warranty."

Express shipping from China was $64 and they said I should have it no later than 8 days. I was nicked a $16.40 "PayPal fee" but I just wasn't sure if giving my CC # directly to a Chinese merchant(even though they seemed legitimate in every respect) was a good idea....
So a total of $380.40 shipped to my door for a 30a EVSE with a 8m(~25') cable and ability to limit current to 13a(for a 15 circuit) 20a(slightly overloading a 20a circuit but OK for shorter duration(an hour or so) 20a use) and finally 30a(they said max output with the L6-30 that I wanted could only be 30a) which should give me 27.5a on my '13 Leaf, plugged into a proper circuit.
I'll fill you in on how it works once I've gotten it and played with it for a while, no other portable 30a EVSE in this price range, the closest would probably be the $399 wall mount GE(only 18' cord) which IMO is way too bulky to carry around or maybe the $500 JuiceBox basic that you cannot limit the charging current or $600 JuiceBox you can limit charging current but your need to use your cell phone or lastly for ~$600 you could get a ClipperCreek that you couldn't limit charge current and only works on L2(240v). No for <$400 this seems a real versatile nicely priced EVSE, hope it works well :)

Base unit I ordered, note you don't get all the charging currents listed, I picked the (3) I most wanted and I believe I got a longer cord than is normal, I think 5m(~15') is standard unless you specify.
http://www.e-zencar.net/product/evse-32a/
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

silverone
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:29 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jan 2017
Location: Eastern OH

Re: EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:09 pm

I was able to get a 30A EVSE from Ebay that appears to be an unlabeled version of Evocharge 30A EVSE.

It has a NEMA 3R enclosure rated for outdoors, although I'm just using it in a garage. The Evocharge unit has quite a few positive ratings on Amazon, so I'm thinking it may be one of the better deals out there right now if you can handle no warranty.

I have a Clipper Creek LCS-20 as a backup that I'll end up using elsewhere, so the lack of warranty didn't bother me.

Was priced on Ebay and several other sites at $325 and best offer taken was less than that. The Evocharge price for an identical unit was more than double that.

May be an good alternative low cost option if anyone is interested.
2013 SL with Premium package - build date 5/13. 12 bar car with 38,000 miles and counting...
2014 Volt - 45,000+ miles

jjeff
Posts: 1303
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:39 pm

silverone wrote:I was able to get a 30A EVSE from Ebay that appears to be an unlabeled version of Evocharge 30A EVSE.
....

Do you have a link? I searched ebay for EVOcharge but found nothing :? I did see some EVSEs but nothing called Evocharge.....
I did find a similar 30a EVSE to the one I ordered directly from China, the ZenCar but it was $399 and only had 2 amp settings(16 or 32) and had the rather large/bulky 14-50 plug and no mention of the cord length so I'd assume it might be the standard 5m??.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Duosida-32Amp-2 ... 4I&vxp=mtr
Another seller has one with 4 amp settings, 10, 16, 24 and 32 also with the 14-50 plug. Looks to have the nice 24" input cable and 24' output for $495. So if ordering direct from China isn't your thing and your OK with the amp settings and 14-50 input plug, it might be a good deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Duosida-ZenCar- ... sM&vxp=mtr
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

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