Federal Tax Credit or 6.6kW Preparedness?

Looking up the latest specs of the Leviton Evr-Green units, I notice that although the 160 Unit should be available before the end of the year, the 320 will not until Q1 2011. So you have a choice if you're going with Leviton (there's still Coulomb. ClipperCreek and perhaps a few others that can do 6.6kW EVSEs, all be it with a J1772 chord upgrade, but I'll ignore those for the moment).

So, since the tax credit will expire on 31 Dec 2010, what would you do? Hope for 4 hour charging and face the fact you'll get no tax credit or just buy a 160 Evr-Green now and wait until the 6.6kW charger LEAF upgrade becomes available before upgrading to the 320 (but installing #6 gauge wiring so you only need to modify the receptacle from NEMA 6-20P to 6-50P when replacing the EVSE -- assuming the 160 can't plug into a NEMA 6-50P already, which it should)?

Or, do you just hope for an 11kW charger upgrade for the LEAF and a 480 Evr-Green that still uses NEMA 6-50P but draws 48A instead of just 32A and charge in a mere 2 hours.

Informal poll, anyone?

And yes, I know a lot of you are just saying bugger-it and going to stick with the portable 110V/15A (12A load) EVSE from Nissan. Feel free to cast that vote too!

So I think it comes down to this:

Assuming a "mile" is the distance you travel under EPA LA4 / UDDS specification, under which the 24 kWh battery is estimated to achieve 100 miles.

Option 1: 11 minutes of charging per mi: Free (Nissan 110V/12A provided EVSE)
Option 2: 5 1/2 minutes of charging per mi: Free in Europe (Nissan 220V/12A provided EVSE)
Option 3: 4 minutes of charging per mi: Use Federal EVSE Tax Credit and buy Evr-Green 160 or Aerovironment.
Option 4: 2 minutes of charging per mi: Hold out for the 6.6kW charger upgrade for the LEAF and the Evr-Green 320, which Mark Perry has said is a likely upgrade if demand is there.
Option 4: 1 minute 20 seconds charging per mi: Keep dreaming about Nissan offering an 10.5kW charger upgrade and searching for a true 220V/50A EVSE.
Option 5: 4.5 seconds charging per mi: Only use Level III charging stations to charge your LEAF and watch the battery deteriorate at an alarming rate.

I think that about covers it, unless you also consider:

Option 4.5: 45 seconds charging per mi: Hack your Nissan to use a Tesla charger and get one of Tesla's 90A ClipperCreek charging stations.

Your options are overly complex and this is going to end up being yet another redundant EVSE thread on the same repetitive topics as the EVSE credit thread. People are over thinking this thing to death. Get your homes pre-wired now to a location where you can have an outlet or EVSE hard-wired. Wait until Dec to see what the options are for EVSEs or news on a new credit. The idea of waiting for a Leaf factory charger upgrade is far off at best, if you think you may want higher power charging, or may get a new EV in the future then get a higher power EVSE now if you can or use 110 until Q1 if possible. I'm not going to elaborate on the detail of tax credits but there are ways to get an EVSE in 2011 and take the credit in 2010, many creative ways. For those that can't wait for 240V and need it now there will certainly be mods to the 120v EVSE shortly. I'm not considering anything until the beginning of Dec and I think running out to get something like a no-name Charge America startup EVSE from a company that looks to be disorganized and struggling is a bit foolish IMO.

I do not plan to ever upgrade the Leaf charger so Leviton 16a purchase in Dec will be fine for me.
Any 32a is just way overkill.
I like to sleep eight hours at night so faster charging is unneeded.

Although the Voltec also looks good ($490) but sounds like partner GM will not allow general sales to Leaf owners.
I wish Nissan had a similar bare bones no features low price 16a 240v evse.

I plan to rely on 120 at home and the fast charger away from home. I think that there will be fast chargers along interstates soon and a sprinkling of them in most cities. My guess is that with a little patience you will be able to take a Leaf anywhere but a remote camping trip.

Option 3 : Get the 3.3KW EVSE now and the 50% of credit.

If and when Leaf can be upgraded to 6.6KW - get a new 6.6KW (or higher) EVSE.

This will prove cheaper (and less frustrating) in the long run. I don't expect a quick Leaf upgrade.

EVDRIVER said:

Your options are overly complex...

Click to expand...

Well, really it comes down to:

How long would you be willing to wait to drive your LEAF for each mile.

• 11 minutes: Free in US / Canada
• 5 1/2 minutes: Free in Europe
• 4 minutes: with 3.3kW built-in Charger and EVSE
• 2 minutes: with 6.6kW Charger upgrade (possible)
• 1 minute 20 seconds: with 10.5kW Charger upgrade (very unlikely)
• 45 seconds: with parts hacked from a Tesla
• 4.5 seconds: using DC Fast Charge with Battery damage

Personally, since I'm more in the depletion category for battery usage, I could either choose to only drive my LEAF every other day or get an EVSE.

EVDRIVER said:

Get your homes pre-wired now to a location where you can have an outlet or EVSE hard-wired. Wait until Dec to see what the options are for EVSEs or news on a new credit.

Click to expand...

Well, as the installation cost is going to probably be more than the equipment cost, and I didn't see this covered elsewhere and I have read every single entry in the main EVSE thread (all 69 pages) and don't think this was ever explained there, my question is simply if this can be done in stages and still earn the Tax Credit.

Specifically, if I do the electrical work only, with no EVSE, since this in in preparation for an EVSE, can I claim that? I think I can from my reading of Tax Law as referenced in other threads. Now, if I later go ahead and buy the EVSE and have it professionally installed, within calendar / tax year 2010, can I claim the sum of the electrical work and the EVSE installation?

Then, if by some miracle Congress does approve extending the EVSE tax credit into 2011, could I buy a second EVSE that does 6.6kW in preparation for upgrading my LEAF when that becomes available or have I used up my lifetime credit where a) the total cost of wiring + EVSE 1 + EVSE 2 is less than $4000 (unlikely) and b) where wiring + EVSE 1 < $4000 and EVSE 2 < $4000. I.e. would the claims be additive (lifetime) or be taken from year to year. Yes, I know we can't answer that question until and if Congress does pass an extension, which I none the less think is very unlikely.

Those are the points I think are still unclear given the current tax law.

And all that said, remember I'm in the April delivery window so there's no way I'm getting my car in Q1 2011 anyway.

smkettner said:

I do not plan to ever upgrade the Leaf charger so Leviton 16a purchase in Dec will be fine for me.
Any 32a is just way overkill.
I like to sleep eight hours at night so faster charging is unneeded.

Click to expand...

Oh, and the Use-Case I'm targeting with the 6.6kW charger is:

TOU doesn't kick in until 10pm but need a full charge so I can hit the gym by 4am, meaning I leave the house at 3a17. It's not that I get home at 10pm; I go to sleep many hours before then. It's a matter of when the TOU kicks in (in the Summer for my utility).

Edit: Until the 6.6kW charger becomes available, I'm just going to have to avoid the 4am gym; but man will I miss have a run on all the equipment and clear highways.

An 8-hour charge at 3.3KW works just fine if I never stray more than 100 miles from home and charge up for 8 hours before returning. (Your typical work scenario assuming a 240V charge at work)

But for road trips a 10.5KW capability would be really sweet, to be able to top up at an RV park or something while stopped for lunch and then be on your way with a nearly full battery again. However I expect to be stuck with the 3.3KW charger built into the car for the foreseeable future - I'm not holding my breath for any upgrades to that.

TimeHorse said:

Oh, and the Use-Case I'm targeting with the 6.6kW charger is:

TOU doesn't kick in until 10pm but need a full charge so I can hit the gym by 4am, meaning I leave the house at 3a17. It's not that I get home at 10pm; I go to sleep many hours before then. It's a matter of when the TOU kicks in (in the Summer for my utility).

Edit: Until the 6.6kW charger becomes available, I'm just going to have to avoid the 4am gym; but man will I miss have a run on all the equipment and clear highways.

Click to expand...

By your formula in the first post five hours gives 75 miles. Do you really drive that every day?
Don't use this to skip the gym

TimeHorse said:

EVDRIVER said:

Get your homes pre-wired now to a location where you can have an outlet or EVSE hard-wired. Wait until Dec to see what the options are for EVSEs or news on a new credit.

Click to expand...

Well, as the installation cost is going to probably be more than the equipment cost, and I didn't see this covered elsewhere and I have read every single entry in the main EVSE thread (all 69 pages) and don't think this was ever explained there, my question is simply if this can be done in stages and still earn the Tax Credit.

Specifically, if I do the electrical work only, with no EVSE, since this in in preparation for an EVSE, can I claim that? I think I can from my reading of Tax Law as referenced in other threads. Now, if I later go ahead and buy the EVSE and have it professionally installed, within calendar / tax year 2010, can I claim the sum of the electrical work and the EVSE installation?

Then, if by some miracle Congress does approve extending the EVSE tax credit into 2011, could I buy a second EVSE that does 6.6kW in preparation for upgrading my LEAF when that becomes available or have I used up my lifetime credit where a) the total cost of wiring + EVSE 1 + EVSE 2 is less than $4000 (unlikely) and b) where wiring + EVSE 1 < $4000 and EVSE 2 < $4000. I.e. would the claims be additive (lifetime) or be taken from year to year. Yes, I know we can't answer that question until and if Congress does pass an extension, which I none the less think is very unlikely.

Those are the points I think are still unclear given the current tax law.

And all that said, remember I'm in the April delivery window so there's no way I'm getting my car in Q1 2011 anyway.

Click to expand...

Just make sure the electrical receipt describes the work as for an EVSE. It makes no difference if it is two receipts but you must have a receipt showing the installation of the evse and the related installation work in 2010. You could have an electrician do the install and a receipt from AV for an EVSe they sent you in 2010.

Again, people are making this too complex. You need proof of payment and a description of all the work for 2010. That is the key documentation. There are no complex requirements.

Is the BLINK charger 6.6 as well?

It seems the commercial versions must be... if the Tesla is a 6.6 charged car.

cdub said:

It seems the commercial versions must be... if the Tesla is a 6.6 charged car.

Click to expand...

What ?

cdub said:

Is the BLINK charger 6.6 as well?

It seems the commercial versions must be... if the Tesla is a 6.6 charged car.

Click to expand...

To give you an idea of how low power the Leaf charger is the Tesla can charge at 16KW plus, this is 240@ 70A and is why they use the Clipper Creek EVSE. That is an onboard charger but the way.

I don't think there will ever be a charger upgrade available to a Gen 1 LEAF, at least not from Nissan. Maybe some independent will come up with one. But personally, I don't care, as my tag says. I may use L2 charging occasionally away from home, but that's all.

EVDRIVER said:

cdub said:

Is the BLINK charger 6.6 as well?

It seems the commercial versions must be... if the Tesla is a 6.6 charged car.

Click to expand...

To give you an idea of how low power the Leaf charger is the Tesla can charge at 16KW plus, this is 240@ 70A and is why they use the Clipper Creek EVSE. That is an onboard charger but the way.

Click to expand...

No wonder that thing charges so quickly. Why doesn't the LEAF use a quicker charger like that... woudn't that ease some range anxiety with people if the chargers out in public like at restaurants charge that fast?

Or will all the public chargers be able to charge at the highest rate if your car is capable of it?

Are these compatible with the LEAF?
http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric/charging/universal-mobile-connector

http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric/charging/high-power-wall-connector

Why didn't the let the LEAF charge at a higher rate..

If the Tesla can charge from 0 to full in 4 hours and it has a much larger battery pack... couldn't the Leaf pack technically be full in 2 hours with the better onboard charger... that would be a much more attractive option to reduce range anxiety.

Tesla has an active battery cooling system, yes?

cdub said:

Are these compatible with the LEAF?
http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric/charging/universal-mobile-connector

http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric/charging/high-power-wall-connector

Why didn't the let the LEAF charge at a higher rate..

If the Tesla can charge from 0 to full in 4 hours and it has a much larger battery pack... couldn't the Leaf pack technically be full in 2 hours with the better onboard charger... that would be a much more attractive option to reduce range anxiety.

Click to expand...

No, they are not, unless you change the car-end of the cable to J1772. But their higher charge rate will not help you on a LEAF, because it's still limited to 3.3kW. At the 3.3kW rate you can charge approx 11-13 miles per hour.

Yes, the Tesla has a MUCH larger pack (53kWh instead of 24).

Nissan's reasoning to limit the onboard charger to 3.3kW is unknown, but likely cost and Euro-standard related (230V at 13amps household outlets).

smkettner said:

Tesla has an active battery cooling system, yes?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Tesla's home charger is 53 miles per hour. Holy moly. If all of the standard 220 chargers were that.. there would be NO range anxiety.

Heck 53 miles per hour is pretty freaking good for a pack that has a 100 mile range. No idea why they didn't go that route.