L2 at 40 or 50 amps

Just an observation:

40A x 220v = 8.8 kWh, and
50A x 220v = 11.0, with either one
charging the LEAF's 24 kWh in UNDER 3 hours.

Thus, these uses would normally not be considered "continuous" loads,
technically allowing full use of a 40A (or 50A) breaker.

But, since you MIGHT be charging a larger battery, or one car right after another, the EVSEs are all considered "continuous" loads, no matter how they actually get used.

You could imagine an "L3" or DC home charger that would work at 240v/40A or 50A and bypass the Leaf's 3.3 kW built-in electronics by using the car's other port.

no need to imagine it, it was brought up by me in May, Rich Rudman of Manzanita micro is willing to try adapting one of their PFC-50's to the Leaf, assuming someone can get him the L3 DC protocol info and info on the Leafs DCD port...

There is already a thread on this: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=286&p=2087&hilit=pfc50#p2087

The PFC-50 can put out up to 50 amps, (40A @ %80 to avoid breaker heating), plenty of power to charge @ near 10KW, the Leaf could be charged in 2.5 hours from complety empty, and a 40A draw is possible on a residential circuit without too much trouble. of course the PFC-50 is $3,300 + you would need a few more doodads and gizmos (L3 charging connector and interface circuit to the canbus)

What is your point? We know what the loads are for various chargers and we know to get more than 3.3kw one must use the L3 port or replace the factory charger.

It's 12:27- Just an observation.

some people are just impatient or have more money than sense?

at any rate, it is possible, if you want to spend the money on the charger, bring the car to "the madman" (Rich Rudman) and wait for him to get the interface done.

If you are in the L3 port isn't this L3 charging? (title says L2)

I don't think you will get 40+ amps through the L2 port without Leaf modification.

I see nothing extraordinary about L3 charging at less than the maximum L3 rate.

whatever.

you are not going to charge the Leaf at more than 3.3KW until the onboard CHARGER is replaced.
I wouldn't hold my breath for that. until that time, if you want to charge at more than 3.3KW rate, you will need to adapt an existing DC charger to the Leafs L3 port, that is the only way possible for now. If you are not getting the L3 port, forget about it, it's not going to happen for you. the PFC-50 @ 10KW is probably the best you are going to be able to do, for the money. of course it hasn't yet been adapted to the Leaf, that still remains to be done, but the owner of Manzanita Micro is willing to attempt it.

I believe 3 hours would be considered a continuous load. It is a question of the thermal time constants involved as it is a thermal effect that makes a circuit breaker trip. Typical thermal time constants for small things with an air interface are about half an hour.

smkettner said:

If you are in the L3 port isn't this L3 charging? (title says L2)

I don't think you will get 40+ amps through the L2 port without Leaf modification.

I see nothing extraordinary about L3 charging at less than the maximum L3 rate.

Click to expand...

You can put 100 A in the L2 port but it's pointless as the 3.3kw charger will only draw what it needs of course, if you mean a new charger then that is modification. One MUST use the L3 PORT to get a higher charging level and it makes complete sense for some to get 7-12 kw of charging. You can get 16kw of charging in the L2 port IF you have a higher power charger. L1 is 120v, L2 is 240V and L3 is a higher voltage. You can use a 120V charger on an L3 port but it is not L3 charging as that is more a definition of voltage in most cases.

mitch672 said:

whatever.

you are not going to charge the Leaf at more than 3.3KW until the onboard CHARGER is replaced.
I wouldn't hold my breath for that. until that time, if you want to charge at more than 3.3KW rate, you will need to adapt an existing DC charger to the Leafs L3 port, that is the only way possible for now. If you are not getting the L3 port, forget about it, it's not going to happen for you. the PFC-50 @ 10KW is probably the best you are going to be able to do, for the money. of course it hasn't yet been adapted to the Leaf, that still remains to be done, but the owner of Manzanita Micro is willing to attempt it.

Click to expand...

I'm not going to wait for Rich I would just build my own interface. Also remember, PFC chargers are NOT isolated!

EVDRIVER said:

You can use a 120V charger on an L3 port but it is not L3 charging as that is more a definition of voltage in most cases.

Click to expand...

If the 120v charger (external) supplies 4 amps DC (400volts?) to the L3 port I call that L3 charging.

I know the difference of L1, L2, L3. I just do not see the point of going through the L2 port with 12Kw. If you are going to get a charger it may as well supply high voltage DC through the L3 port.

The OP called the thread L2 at 40 or 50 amps. This would require an upgraded onboard charger. Let us know when a plug and play upgrade is available.

smkettner said:

EVDRIVER said:

You can use a 120V charger on an L3 port but it is not L3 charging as that is more a definition of voltage in most cases.

Click to expand...

If the 120v charger (external) supplies 4 amps DC (400volts?) to the L3 port I call that L3 charging.

I know the difference of L1, L2, L3. I just do not see the point of going through the L2 port with 12Kw. If you are going to get a charger it may as well supply high voltage DC through the L3 port.

The OP called the thread L2 at 40 or 50 amps. This would require an upgraded onboard charger. Let us know when a plug and play upgrade is available.

Click to expand...

That's because Gary likes to start silly threads in the EVSE area.

garygid said:

Just an observation:

40A x 220v = 8.8 kWh, and
50A x 220v = 11.0, with either one
charging the LEAF's 24 kWh in UNDER 3 hours.

Thus, these uses would normally not be considered "continuous" loads,
technically allowing full use of a 40A (or 50A) breaker.

But, since you MIGHT be charging a larger battery, or one car right after another, the EVSEs are all considered "continuous" loads, no matter how they actually get used.

Click to expand...

I don't think the size of the breaker or wire is a big issue until you get over 50 amps.
Maybe 80 amp breaker is not a huge issue for most.

All minor compared to the charger component cost

EVDRIVER said:

You can put 100 A in the L2 port but it's pointless as the 3.3kw charger will only draw what it needs of course

Click to expand...

Actually, I believe the top end for J1772 is 80A (100A breaker) which the Clipper Creek CS-100 will do.

EVDRIVER said:

L1 is 120v, L2 is 240V and L3 is a higher voltage. You can use a 120V charger on an L3 port but it is not L3 charging as that is more a definition of voltage in most cases.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I like that definition. I would say:
L1 is AC 110-120v
L2 is AC 208-240v
L3 is DC, native battery charging voltage

Admittedly for most vehicles it probably makes sense from an engineering standpoint to run the battery at a higher voltage, but I don't see why that would be essential.

planet4ever said:

Admittedly for most vehicles it probably makes sense from an engineering standpoint to run the battery at a higher voltage, but I don't see why that would be essential.

Click to expand...

its quite simple, higher voltage = lower current draw for the same power,

E= I * R
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm's_law

it's the same reason high voltage is used to transmit AC power on the grid, you can use smaller gauge wires = less money.
also, it gets unwieldy to have large 4/0, 300-350MCM wires runing around from the battery to the motor controller. by using a higher voltage, the wire gauge is smaller and costs less.

I don't think we are disagreeing at all, Mitch. I'm just suggesting that there might be occasional applications, such as an all-electric go-cart, which could best be designed with relatively few cells, so that a high voltage wouldn't be practical. Charging such a go-cart with DC would still be L3, regardless of the voltage required.

planet4ever said:

I don't think we are disagreeing at all, Mitch. I'm just suggesting that there might be occasional applications, such as an all-electric go-cart, which could best be designed with relatively few cells, so that a high voltage wouldn't be practical. Charging such a go-cart with DC would still be L3, regardless of the voltage required.

Click to expand...

The L1-L3 ratings are for autos with HV packs, not go carts and the like. The L3 is a designation of the higher voltage/current charging and the suggested speed as a result of that. It has nothing to do with being DC, all charging is DC and the car is fed DC because the charger would crush the car if it were on board. If a L2 charger were huge it would not be on the car as well.