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LakeLeaf

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Messages
1,424
Location
South Lake Tahoe, California
Lots of topics with lots of discussion about various EVSEs.

Since folks are getting close to actually installing these - let's have a place to post when you actually get your EVSE installed.

What brand did you install?
What was the cost of the EVSE?
What was the cost of the installation?
Did you get this EVSE through Nissan and AV?

and lastly - Now that you have it - have you discovered anything about it that wasn't in the marketing material?
 
I did a few weeks ago and removed it (AVCON) . I also decided to add an additional conduit to the front of my garage as it is more convenient, I know have three 50A 240 charging locations which I will likely reduce down to two. The new one uses a 1" conduit since it was only a bit more for the material and is easier to upgrade if needed. Here is the new location for either a modified L1 Leaf EVSE to L2 240 or a Leviton unit. This line also has a dedicated MTU for the TED 5000. No EVSE yet but thought the pick my be helpful for those considering a plug in.

If you live in SF proper and you are struggling with EVSE installations or have an existing one and want to avoid AV, I could be bribed to look at it and help review some options if you need help.


2hy1k9.jpg
 
Nice!

So what's your plan if the EVSE you eventually purchase doesn't have a plug compatible with that socket? Will you change the socket type, or build a little converter? Or have you determined that the EVSE's you are likely to purchase have a plug compatible with that socket?
 
LakeLeaf said:
Nice!

So what's your plan if the EVSE you eventually purchase doesn't have a plug compatible with that socket? Will you change the socket type, or build a little converter? Or have you determined that the EVSE's you are likely to purchase have a plug compatible with that socket?


I will just put an plug end on the EVSE, I have about 10 adaptors here, spools of 8/3 flex cable from old EV charge cords (AVATAR) , etc. I also have cords with adaptors for 110 for universal chargers and even some with clips (not advised). Changing the outlet takes $6 and 5 minutes of time. I can pull all new wire (8G now) in the conduit and connect in about 15-20 min since it is only about 30 feet and four bends to panel. Cost about $100 and an hour or so to do the conduit, would take about 15-20 min to remove the outlet and hard wire to an EVSE if desired.

The duplex is a 20A GFI dedicated.


Here is an actual charger (French junk charger) from a Think, the black box with the fins in the bottom. The larger silver box above it is a Siemens inverter and if you look close you can see a tiny plug flap the size of a headphone jack at the top left of the frame, there was no EVSE required on EURO models and the charger was 20A (limited from 25) and 240V, it used a cord like a standard extension cord here and it was exposed to water all the time. Charged the 10kwh pack up fast.

The battery is at the bottom right and brake vac booster on the left. You can see the top of the Siemens motor, there is also a radiator in there that cools the inverter, entire pack and dc/dc. The motor bay is quite open otherwise and empty.

2iqg3sn.jpg
 
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3057/av1c.jpg
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7226/av3u.jpg

I got my AV EVSE installed on 11/9/10. Above are the links for the pictures. I was not able to load the pictures myself. May be one of the mods would help, I would appreciate that.
Here are the details:
Total cost: $2925.00
Custom Installation: $1863.00
Permits: S230
Dock: $720

As reported earlier, this involved trench work for about 30 feet and crawl space/attic work. Local electrical contractors had quoted just a bit lower price for installation.
There were 4 persons, who worked for nearly 5 hours to finish the work. City inspector came the next day and signed off on the permit. I was the first person to get this done in Roseville area. There was actually another person in Fair Oaks area of Sacramento, who got the installation by AV done on 11/8/10.
Testing equipment included a rectangular box measuring about 24x18x18 inches. There was lot of noise when simulated "charging" was started. I asked him if actual charging process would be that noisy, he said no.

On 11/10/10, I did attend CCSE workshop on Sacramento. There were presentations by EVCA, SMUD and of course by CCSE person. Charge Point America level 2 EVSE looked impressive but I told their rep that I never got any response to my emails or phone messages from their company and I ended up buying rather expensive unit from AV.

I contacted Nissan CS yesterday evening to get the receipt for installation of EVSE. I was referred to AV, who in turn told me that I was the first person to contact them for this purpose. They apparently didn't have system in place for this but promised that it would be available most likely on Nissan LEAF web site under the account by next week. I will wait and see and hopefully be able to print it online.

I have not done test drive as yet but am scheduled to do it in San Francisco on 11/20/10. I believe my delivery date would be sometime in Feb 2011, as my order date is 9/7/10.
 
Questions:

1) I asked this in the other AV EVSE thread, but didn't get an answer.....almost every install I've seen thus far has a rather inelegant conduit snaking up underneath and going up into the bottom of the AV unit? Are these not designed to mount over the top of an in-wall junction box.

2) Specifically about Harv's installation, is the supplemental disconnect/fuse box a requirement by local code or by NEC? That's the first time I've seen one of those incorporated into an install (though the number of installs I've seen thus far is very few, and it may just have been out of shot on the pictures).
 
mwalsh said:
Questions:

1) I asked this in the other AV EVSE thread, but didn't get an answer.....almost every install I've seen thus far has a rather inelegant conduit snaking up underneath and going up into the bottom of the AV unit? Are these not designed to mount over the top of an in-wall junction box.

2) Specifically about Harv's installation, is the supplemental disconnect/fuse box a requirement by local code or by NEC? That's the first time I've seen one of those incorporated into an install (though the number of installs I've seen thus far is very few, and it may just have been out of shot on the pictures).

I did ask the electrician who installed the unit, about the location of the conduit unit. It appears that the instructions given to them are not very clear. As you mentioned, there have not been many installations as yet. AV may be able to provide the answers and I would ask them when I call them for the receipt issues next week.

I didn't ask him specifically about the fuse box whether or not this was a requirement of some kind. I can certainly clarify this issue next week and post the response.

Harvinder
 
Harv said:
I didn't ask him specifically about the fuse box whether or not this was a requirement of some kind. I can certainly clarify this issue next week and post the response.

Harvinder

Cheers Harv!

I found a paper on the Internet, not sure what the source was but someplace in CA, since it mentions the CEC as well as the NEC. Looks like the disconnect/fuse box might be a requirement:

Safety Switch: For EVSE rated at more than 60 amps or more than 150 volts to ground, a means of disconnect must be installed in a readily accessible location and within sight of the electric charging connector. If the disconnect is not in sight of the equipment, it must be capable of being locked in the open position (CEC §625.23). Depending on local code requirements, a fused switch may be needed if the switch is not readily accessible, or is not visible from the main panel.
 
mwalsh said:
I found a paper on the Internet, not sure what the source was but someplace in CA, since it mentions the CEC as well as the NEC. Looks like the disconnect/fuse box might be a requirement:

Safety Switch: For EVSE rated at more than 60 amps or more than 150 volts to ground, a means of disconnect must be installed in a readily accessible location and within sight of the electric charging connector. If the disconnect is not in sight of the equipment, it must be capable of being locked in the open position (CEC §625.23). Depending on local code requirements, a fused switch may be needed if the switch is not readily accessible, or is not visible from the main panel.
I don't think the above statement leads to any disconnect requirement since those conditions aren't met with this EVSE (< 60A and 120V to ground)
But, I've had two EVSE electricians at my house (AV and Ecotality); the AV guy said depending on local codes I should have a disconnect near the EVSE since the cable run to my panel was more than 30 ft. The Ecotality guy never mentioned needing it; but I mentioned it and he shrugged and said "sounds good".

I plan to install one anyway, although my EVSE install doesn't call for pulling any permits. Seems like AV's design should have integrated a cutout switch so the installs would be cleaner. The thing that seems missing from Harv's install is a nearby GFCI 120V plug for the "trickle charger". Maybe it's just out of view? The AV electrician said garage plugs have to be GFCI anyway (and of course they prefer a dedicated circuit). Whenever there's an EVSE problem, AV will ask you to plug-in the trickle charger to isolate whether the problem is the LEAF or the EVSE.
BTW, I agree that the installs look pretty rough considering what we know about AV's installation pricing. Remember the pretty installation in the AV video? No, flex conduit and junction boxes tacked to the walls.
 
sparky said:
BTW, I agree that the installs look pretty rough considering what we know about AV's installation pricing.

I asked David to comment on whether the gray conduit pictured attached to his EVSE was on there already when the electrician pulled the unit out of the box. It certainly wasn't pictured installed that way in any of the glossy advertising we've seen! Harv, would you care to comment on that too?

Thanks for fleshing out some of the technical stuff for me. It doesn't look like David got one in his install, so maybe local code (or overkill, or future-proofing) for Harv's?

General question for everyone: Did we ever have a thread that outlined what the basic wiring requirements were for the AV EVSE, for if we planned to use our own electrician and going cash-and-carry for the unit? I must have missed it if we did, and would appreciate a pointer to it.
 
That "Grey Conduit" is actually called "Liquidtight", it's used typically when running from an outdoor disconnect to an air conditioer compressor, for example. Technically they don't need to use this indoors, however, its flexible and easier to deal with, rather than making bends in EMT conduit, which is why it's used (electricians are in general, very lazy)

BTW, likely they are using #8 THHN 3 wire (hot, hot, ground) and a 40AMP 2-pole circuit breaker to do the wiring.

Ampacity chart: http://www.cerrowire.com/default.aspx?id=46

BTW, you will notice it depends on the insulation type... FYI, THHN is typical to run in conduits.
 
mitch672 said:
That "Grey Conduit" is actually called "Liquidtight", it's used typically when running from an outdoor disconnect to an air conditioer compressor, for example. Technically they don't need to use this indoor, however, its flexible and easier to deal with, rather than making bends in EMT conduit, which is why it's used (electricians are in general, very lazy)

Good to know. BUT....I was expecting to mount a junction box inside the wall, under the unit. Surely they can just mount this thing over the top of that and directly connect it?
 
mwalsh said:
mitch672 said:
That "Grey Conduit" is actually called "Liquidtight", it's used typically when running from an outdoor disconnect to an air conditioer compressor, for example. Technically they don't need to use this indoor, however, its flexible and easier to deal with, rather than making bends in EMT conduit, which is why it's used (electricians are in general, very lazy)

Good to know. BUT....I was expecting to mount a junction box inside the wall, under the unit. Surely they can just mount this thing over the top of that and directly connect it?

probably not. If the circuit breaker panel is not visible from the EVSE location (and has to be within so many feet as well), you will need a disconnect, in most places. they would probably mount the disconnect over your junction box, then run some nice grey liquidtight to the EVSE mounted right next to it. That's probably the best you will get...
 
mitch672 said:
probably not. If the circuit breaker panel is not visible from the EVSE location (and has to be within so many feet as well), you will need a disconnect, in most places. they would probably mount the disconnect over your junction box, then run some nice grey liquidtight to the EVSE mounted right next to it. That's probably the best you will get...

Poop. I was afraid you were going to say that. :lol:

Still, thanks for your opinion on the wiring....don't want to sound like a doofus when I'm talking to the electrician!
 
mitch672 said:
probably not. If the circuit breaker panel is not visible from the EVSE location (and has to be within so many feet as well), you will need a disconnect, in most places. they would probably mount the disconnect over your junction box, then run some nice grey liquidtight to the EVSE mounted right next to it. That's probably the best you will get...

For a thousand dollars, I'd expect a much neater installation. All of these photos look like DIY jobs. All the more reason to stay away from AV and go with a good local contractor.

Speculation: AV is probably paying absolute minimum wages to the contractors they selected, so they are putting their lowest wage workers on the jobs. I'd recommend just buying the AV unit and going with a local contractor if you want the AV unit. You'll pay less and get a better installation. I'd bet if you ask to have the unit installed such that the connection from the disconnect to the back of the EVSE is behind the wall, you could have your contractor do it for less than the AV price.
 
palmermd said:
mitch672 said:
probably not. If the circuit breaker panel is not visible from the EVSE location (and has to be within so many feet as well), you will need a disconnect, in most places. they would probably mount the disconnect over your junction box, then run some nice grey liquidtight to the EVSE mounted right next to it. That's probably the best you will get...

For a thousand dollars, I'd expect a much neater installation. All of these photos look like DIY jobs. All the more reason to stay away from AV and go with a good local contractor.

Speculation: AV is probably paying absolute minimum wages to the contractors they selected, so they are putting their lowest wage workers on the jobs. I'd recommend just buying the AV unit and going with a local contractor if you want the AV unit. You'll pay less and get a better installation. I'd bet if you ask to have the unit installed such that the connection from the disconnect to the back of the EVSE is behind the wall, you could have your contractor do it for less than the AV price.
The disconnect has to be next to the EVSE. These installations look extremely clean and professional and about as good as you can get.

The only other option might be to build a box that can be closed on the side of the house with the EVSE and disconnect inside of it, but I'm not sure that would be allowed...
 
DarkStar said:
The disconnect has to be next to the EVSE. These installations look extremely clean and professional and about as good as you can get.

But only if required by NEC or local code. Mitch672 has already said that the AV EVSE doesn't call for one according to NEC, so you probably only need one if local code dictates. BTW, David Lo said that the blanked off box in his installation...the electrician added it just in case the local inspector wanted one.

I think the installations, in the main, look OK. But they are far from what the advertising hype showed!
 
DarkStar said:
These installations look extremely clean and professional and about as good as you can get.

I use electrical contractors on a daily basis for my customers. My customers would not accept an installation that looked like most of these. Certainly not as good as you can get.
 
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