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TomT
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Location: Foothills of Granada Hills, CA
Contact: Website

Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:09 am

Home hydrogen requires large, expensive equipment... It is not likely to be practical or cost effective for quite some time...

minispeed wrote:On a side note if hydrogen does take off it would be unlimited range for road trips and still fill at home overnight for commutes. The best of both worlds and all zero emmisions.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 reserved.

minispeed
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Location: Ancaster, ON

Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:17 pm

TomT wrote:Home hydrogen requires large, expensive equipment... It is not likely to be practical or cost effective for quite some time...

minispeed wrote:On a side note if hydrogen does take off it would be unlimited range for road trips and still fill at home overnight for commutes. The best of both worlds and all zero emmisions.



I wasn't refering to home hydrogen. I meant a rental trailer with a hydrogen fuel attached to a BEV for road trips that fills at home on electricity for commutes.
2015 White SV, after one month 292 GIDS
Best 1 charge drive, 229km (143miles)

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Nubo
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Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:37 pm

derkraut wrote:And that tow vehicle is being powered by???? :roll:


Natural gas, according to the video.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

johnrhansen
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:47 pm

I don't get what's wrong with good old gasoline. It's simple, it's cheap, and even if you use a range extender powered by it once in awhile, you still are emitting far less carbon than you would be by having to rent a gas car for the trip since you could not afford a battery or hydrogen fueled range extender gor your leaf because of the high cost. I say keep it simple, keep it cheap. It's not going to be used that much.
2013 S model with quick charge package.
AV 30 amp level 2 EVSE, Bosch PowerMax 30 Amp EVSE, EVSE upgraded EVSE.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:12 am

johnrhansen wrote:I don't get what's wrong with good old gasoline. It's simple, it's cheap, and even if you use a range extender powered by it once in awhile, you still are emitting far less carbon than you would be by having to rent a gas car .



Not true, you are better renting an efficient gas car or even better a hybrid, either choice will be more economical in fuel consumption.

donald
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:29 am

I had wondered if a scheme could be set up where heavy good vehicles have a fitment at the back designed to tow EVs. They would stop off at sites where they can pair off with EVs wanting a tow-charge. The EV would carry around its own rigid extendible dolly/draw bar, and hook up to a willing trucker. Some fee would change hands, and off you both go.

Big diesels are very efficient at turning diesel chemical energy into motive power. As this is an additional load at constant speed to an already efficient engine, the 'additional' energy needed would be produced extremely efficiently. I would not be surprised if it was found to be 50% thermally efficient. The added energy-saving benefit is that the energy saved in pulling an EV directly in the aero-wake of a truck would equally save energy significantly, compared with energy consumed by the EV if it went along under its own power.

The scheme would be standardised such that the linkages would be to a given standard, schedules for matching HGVs to EVs could be put on line, EVs brakes would operated in much the same way as any braked trailer does, and a link to the cab would flag up information on the charge state of the EV.

...Just a thought....

minispeed
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Location: Ancaster, ON

Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:47 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
johnrhansen wrote:I don't get what's wrong with good old gasoline. It's simple, it's cheap, and even if you use a range extender powered by it once in awhile, you still are emitting far less carbon than you would be by having to rent a gas car .



Not true, you are better renting an efficient gas car or even better a hybrid, either choice will be more economical in fuel consumption.



I don't think that would be true. A properly designed generator gets to run at a set RPM constantly and therefore should be more effecient than any gas car, or even a hybrid that has to run through the rev range at various loads and sacrafice a lot of efficency for smooth and quiet operation. In an interview I read with a volt engineer they said they could have improved fuel economy while running on gas by holding a higher rpm but the noise and vibration was deemed to be unacceptable. If you run the generator putting out a higher output than required to simply move the car then the rest goes into the battery and eventually you will reach full charge and run without gas again. In any rental car eventually you will stop, idle, and have 0% efficency. Even with stop start there will be times when you just start, or are coasting down and have 1% efficency. A generator will never dip below a certain efficency and get down close to 0% unless something is wrong.

If the generator is in a trailer noise and vibration are a non issue, if the generator is a turbine or rottary noise and vibration can be cut down a lot and can be placed inside a car. The problem with placing it inside the car is the extra cost in packaging space and weight to lug it around when you never need it. Plus you then have to buy it up front instead of paying a rental fee to use it when you know you'll need it.

And for this purpose nothing is wrong with good old gasoline. Since I doubt we will ever see the commercial industry on 100% electric there will always be cheap liquid or gas fuel available to us be it gasoline, diesel, hydrogen, propane or natural gas.


To get back to the original post I think that if the tow truck industry switched over to hybrid trucks there may an option to set up DC to DC fast charging from the tow truck. It would be much safer to just pull over at the side of the road, hook up a chamedo/frankenplug and give you a fast charge than it would to tow to charge. With the time it takes just to hook up a tow truck to charge while pulling you could get a good enough charge from running the tow truck engine as a generator.
2015 White SV, after one month 292 GIDS
Best 1 charge drive, 229km (143miles)

mbender
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Leaf Number: 309606
Location: The Great California Delta, and environs

Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:22 pm

Ostensibly, AAA introduced quick-charging trucks to some of their fleets in 2011. I used one at Plugin Day or similar get-together in 2013, but in a recent call to AAA near Sacramento, they basically didn't know what I was talking (asking) about. I'm curious if anyone here has ever used one in a "true" roadside assistance setting.

AAA Introduces Emergency Roadside Charging for Electric Cars (plugincars.com, August 2011)
Level 3 Roadside Charging from AAA (showtimesdaily.com, October 2011)

I like the towing method, though!
I think I just felt my paradigm shift.

2012 SL (One of the colors): 2-year lease, 2012+,
2015 S w/QC (A different color): 3-year lease, 2014+,
2017 SV (Same color as 2015 S): 3-year lease, 2017+, lower monthly than either above(!)

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DNAinaGoodWay
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Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:22 pm

Staque wrote:If you want to do this while you're moving, you don't need DC at all. Just have a pickup truck pull your leaf and regen at nearly 30KW.


What if . . . You had two LEAFs, towed one to charge it by regen, then switched cars and charged the other one? Could it work?
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new
@ 36 months, 34k, 270 GID, 57.49 Ahr

'17 Bolt LT



6.72 kW Array

mctom987
Posts: 333
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Delivery Date: 29 May 2014
Leaf Number: 332755
Location: San José

Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:54 pm

DNAinaGoodWay wrote:
Staque wrote:If you want to do this while you're moving, you don't need DC at all. Just have a pickup truck pull your leaf and regen at nearly 30KW.


What if . . . You had two LEAFs, towed one to charge it by regen, then switched cars and charged the other one? Could it work?

Probably not.
Ignoring the fact the leaf couldn't tow anything half that weight, the system would be so inefficient that it wouldn't be worth it. You'd be far better off just ripping the battery out of the second Leaf, and hooking it up in parallel to the first Leaf.
2014 Green Leaf SL +PP
June: 580.6 mi, 4.7mi/kWh
July: 1443.8mi, 4.8mi/kWh
Aug: 1157.9mi, 5.1mi/kWh

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