mbender
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:07 pm

DNAinaGoodWay wrote:What if . . . You had two LEAFs, towed one to charge it by regen, then switched cars and charged the other one? Could it work?
No. But something tells me you weren't serious.
I think I just felt my paradigm shift.

2012 SL (One of the colors): 2-year lease, 2012+,
2015 S w/QC (A different color): 3-year lease, 2014+,
2017 SV (Same color as 2015 S): 3-year lease, 2017+, lower monthly than either above(!)

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DNAinaGoodWay
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:14 am

mbender wrote:
DNAinaGoodWay wrote:What if . . . You had two LEAFs, towed one to charge it by regen, then switched cars and charged the other one? Could it work?
No. But something tells me you weren't serious.


I do enjoy a good pipe dream every now and then.
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new
@ 36 months, 34k, 270 GID, 57.49 Ahr

'17 Bolt LT



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hill
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:42 am

minispeed wrote:I'd rather have a road trip trailer option. You could provide 2 options, extra battery only or extra battery and/or generator. It could be gas, diesel or preferably propane. If it's propane you could even offer it with a grill on the back for camping. It could even have a fuel cell if hydrogen does take off the way Toyota and Honda think it will. You could also then use the top as a cargo rack which would be more efficeint than putting a roof rack on top of the car.


On a side note if hydrogen does take off it would be unlimited range for road trips and still fill at home overnight for commutes. The best of both worlds and all zero emmisions.
Yea, Zero . . . . as if the distillation of hydrogen via natural gas is emission free. Time to smell the coffee. Shell oil is in LOVE with the idea of hydrogen cars. guess why.
.

adric22
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:01 am

mctom987 wrote:Another option is solar panels on the car. The problem with charging while moving is the footprint. The car is just too small.
Even with 100% efficient solar panels, you're only looking at ~5kW power. Better than nothing, sure. But most people don't want to hobble around at 20MPH. And again, that's with 100% efficiency. Most panels are 15-18% efficient. Add to the fact that not all of the car is ever facing the perfect angle to the sun, and you're looking at like 500W power, tops.


I think the solar panels are doable. Sure, even at 500 watts, that means on a good day a car could generate 6 kwh of power from the sun. At 3.5 miles per kwh, that's roughly 21 miles of free driving per day from the sun. I think the 500 watt estimate is kind of high, though. I think a more realistic expectation would be around 200 watts. Which means 2.4 kwh or roughly 8.5 miles of range.

Still, even at a realistic 8 miles per day, multiply that by 365 days per year and you can drive 2,920 miles per year on sunlight. Over the life of the car, lets say 10 years, that is 29,200 miles. That is $3,000 to $5,000 worth of gasoline saved just from the solar panels.
2013 Blue Nissan Leaf SV
2012 Summit White Chevy Volt

mbender
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:13 am

adric22 wrote:I think the solar panels are doable. Sure, even at 500 watts, that means on a good day a car could generate 6 kwh of power from the sun.
Operative phrase here being "on a good day", to which I would add, "with the car having full exposure during the entirety of that day." How common is this ("good days" + long exposure)? It would work for some, but not for most. My generous estimate is 25%, but let's be really optimistic and say half. Now, your subsequent calculations proceed for the best case (all days are "good days") scenario, and we know that is not the case:

adric22 wrote:At 3.5 miles per kwh, that's roughly 21 miles of free driving per day [...]
[...] That is $3,000 to $5,000 worth of gasoline saved just from the solar panels.
Divide this result by 2 and you get $2000, say even $2500, in 10 years. We're not done yet, though: now you/we have to SUBTRACT from that $2500 the added cost of including such a high quality panel in the production process ($1000, minimum?), and I'm not sure it would be worth it, much less perceived to be worth it.

BUT... it could be offered as an option -- for those who think they'd get enough sun, for those who are not-so-good at math and/or were "sold on it", or those who just want and like solar/high-tech/gadgety things. And then "the market would decide", as they say. But internally, at the manufacturers, the marketers would have to convince the engineers, executives and bean-counters that it was worth their risk and expense to offer such an option. And I think that won't happen for a while, not until there are significant decreases in panel prices or significant INcreases in their efficiency (or the price of gasoline).
I think I just felt my paradigm shift.

2012 SL (One of the colors): 2-year lease, 2012+,
2015 S w/QC (A different color): 3-year lease, 2014+,
2017 SV (Same color as 2015 S): 3-year lease, 2017+, lower monthly than either above(!)

minispeed
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:54 am

hill wrote:
minispeed wrote:I'd rather have a road trip trailer option. You could provide 2 options, extra battery only or extra battery and/or generator. It could be gas, diesel or preferably propane. If it's propane you could even offer it with a grill on the back for camping. It could even have a fuel cell if hydrogen does take off the way Toyota and Honda think it will. You could also then use the top as a cargo rack which would be more efficeint than putting a roof rack on top of the car.


On a side note if hydrogen does take off it would be unlimited range for road trips and still fill at home overnight for commutes. The best of both worlds and all zero emmisions.
Yea, Zero . . . . as if the distillation of hydrogen via natural gas is emission free. Time to smell the coffee. Shell oil is in LOVE with the idea of hydrogen cars. guess why.
.



I know that when hydrogen starts it will probably come from natural gas, but it doesn't have to. So if we're in a thread talking about what if's and best world scenarios hydrogen can come from water. Also just like electricity now where you can pay to offset, or ensure your home is supplied with green electricity, if hydrogen does take off I am sure that there will be some one some where selling clean zero emission hydrogen (probably for more money) that you could choose to purchase so that you can know you are running zero emissions.

After all as much as big oil is interested in hydrogen now transportation and storage of hydrogen is still a complex and expensive issue. Transportation and storage of water is simple and easy. If a system can be designed so that local fueling stations make hydrogen on site from water and store a short supply for cars/trucks then that would be zero emissions if the electricity is zero emissions. Although this technology is a lot more expensive now the savings is in not having to build and maintain a hydrogen distribution network.
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Best 1 charge drive, 229km (143miles)

mctom987
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:23 am

adric22 wrote:
mctom987 wrote:Another option is solar panels on the car. The problem with charging while moving is the footprint. The car is just too small.
Even with 100% efficient solar panels, you're only looking at ~5kW power. Better than nothing, sure. But most people don't want to hobble around at 20MPH. And again, that's with 100% efficiency. Most panels are 15-18% efficient. Add to the fact that not all of the car is ever facing the perfect angle to the sun, and you're looking at like 500W power, tops.


I think the solar panels are doable. Sure, even at 500 watts, that means on a good day a car could generate 6 kwh of power from the sun. At 3.5 miles per kwh, that's roughly 21 miles of free driving per day from the sun. I think the 500 watt estimate is kind of high, though. I think a more realistic expectation would be around 200 watts. Which means 2.4 kwh or roughly 8.5 miles of range.

Still, even at a realistic 8 miles per day, multiply that by 365 days per year and you can drive 2,920 miles per year on sunlight. Over the life of the car, lets say 10 years, that is 29,200 miles. That is $3,000 to $5,000 worth of gasoline saved just from the solar panels.

You're a little off. 2kWh per day would be a more realistic expectation from 500W of panels. Realize that 8 hours of sun does not mean 8 hours of 100% production. It's closer to 4 hours of 90% production, and 4 hours of 25% production. The only places with 20+ hours of daylight are at such an extreme zenith, you're unlikely to get even 30% power from the panels. This basically means you need to find a place with 40 hours of daylight per day….

FWIW: My area has 5.15 "solar hours" per day on average. This means that 500W panel would generate about 2060Wh per day. (500 * 80% * 5.15). The sun is out for about 13 hours during the summer, and 15 hours on the solstice.
2014 Green Leaf SL +PP
June: 580.6 mi, 4.7mi/kWh
July: 1443.8mi, 4.8mi/kWh
Aug: 1157.9mi, 5.1mi/kWh

mbender
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:30 pm

DNAinaGoodWay wrote:I do enjoy a good pipe dream every now and then.
What kind of pipe? LOL
I think I just felt my paradigm shift.

2012 SL (One of the colors): 2-year lease, 2012+,
2015 S w/QC (A different color): 3-year lease, 2014+,
2017 SV (Same color as 2015 S): 3-year lease, 2017+, lower monthly than either above(!)

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IssacZachary
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:29 am

This thread had me thinking of a way to tow a Leaf with nearly any vehicle.

The greatest stress during towing, from what I understand, is the acceleration needed to pull the whole combined load up to highway speed. But the Leaf has a motor of it's own! The just has to be a way to get the Leaf to apply power to the wheels when the vehicles are accelerating or climbing a hill.

The next greatest stress is from braking. Again the Leaf has brakes, and can even regen brake!

If someone could figure out how to control it you could practically tow a Leaf behind any vehicle and automatically convert it into a hybrid.
2013 SL 45,000 miles.
12 bars until 44,300 miles on June 2, 2017. :D
11 bars current. :)
The Nissan Leaf is the fourth best long distance car for highway driving. >>Best Long Distance Cars<<

Foschas
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Re: DC charging on wheels. Charge while driving.

Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:17 am

BUT... it could be offered as an option -- for those who think they'd get enough sun, for those who are not-so-good at math and/or were "sold on it", or those who just want and like solar/high-tech/gadgety things. And then "the market would decide", as they say. But internally, at the manufacturers, the marketers would have to convince the engineers, executives and bean-counters that it was worth their risk and expense to offer such an option. And I think that won't happen for a while, not until there are significant decreases in panel prices or significant INcreases in their efficiency (or the price of gasoline).




Toyota is doing it with the Prius Prime in Japan.
Not earth shattering gains but it's a start

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/03/02/pa ... ius-prime/

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