Toyota RAV EV

I read this article and found the range of 100 miles surprising considering they are using Tesla technology for the batteries. Seems like Tesla is giving them the Gen 1 technology! If I were Toyota, I would want my seed money back! Looks like the Leaf is pretty cutting edge from a range perspective.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20101117/LOSANGELES/101119865

Timaz said:

I read this article and found the range of 100 miles surprising considering they are using Tesla technology for the batteries. Seems like Tesla is giving them the Gen 1 technology! If I were Toyota, I would want my seed money back! Looks like the Leaf is pretty cutting edge from a range perspective.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20101117/LOSANGELES/101119865

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This is a PR prototype. I would like to see who actually builds the packs on a FULL production model. Toyota has far more experience than Tesla in every respect of building such a vehicle and drive.

Regardless of who builds it, 100 miles of range on a vehicle that may come out 2-3 years from now seem unimpressive to me! Tesla has a sedan coming out(supposedly) around the same time that is supposed have more than double that range.

Timaz said:

Seems like Tesla is giving them the Gen 1 technology!

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I doubt. I am not an expert, but based on what I read, if Tesla is really using laptop batteries, then I would be surprised if the battery holds capacity for even 2 years. And Toyota can't afford to put something like that in the road.

Whereas Toyota has relied on nickel-metal hydride batteries for its hybrid vehicles, the RAV4 EV will come with a Tesla lithium-metal oxide battery with usable output rated in the mid-30 kilowatts-per-hour range.

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This is a pretty disappointing entry into the EV market. The LEAF fills the 100 mile range commuter niche perfectly. A 200 mile plus, SUV EV would have made the perfect companion for getting the the mountains and beyond the urban landscape. With a 100 mile range this is a non starter.

leaf561 said:

Timaz said:

Seems like Tesla is giving them the Gen 1 technology!

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I doubt. I am not an expert, but based on what I read, if Tesla is really using laptop batteries, then I would be surprised if the battery holds capacity for even 2 years. And Toyota can't afford to put something like that in the road.

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The 1000 Roadsters on the road using the same cells dont seem to have any problems.. the advantage of the laptop cells route is that Tesla can always upgrade their packs with the latest cells that come out. Laptop cells are good for 5 years if treated properly.

100 miles of range is plenty for lots of people but it can be changed if the demand is there.

Toyota is targeting 100mi range in the worst case scenario. So where the Leaf will only get ~50 mi range in that case, Toyota wants the next RAV4-EV to get ~100mi.

That likely means they are aiming for LA4 range of at least 150mi, probably closer to 200mi. IMO, they would need a battery pack capable of holding around 50 kWh.

I think a 100mi minimum range is a good target to reach for as it would eliminate range anxiety for most people in most situations.

rumors state it to be around 35 kwh pack. so it will get pretty much at least 100 miles under pretty poor conditions and its a much larger vehicle. but the article pretty much says it all; there is no definitive word on anything right now other than this projection.

DaveinOlyWA said:

rumors state it to be around 35 kwh pack. so it will get pretty much at least 100 miles under pretty poor conditions and its a much larger vehicle. but the article pretty much says it all; there is no definitive word on anything right now other than this projection.

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I believe they said the pack in the current demo vehicle is around 35 kWh - they are going to need a bigger pack if using typical Panasonic laptop cells (which need a larger "longetivity buffer") if they are going to target 100mi range worst case with a bigger vehicle.

Let's say they use 95* w/AC on the highway at 70mph as their worst case scenario. It's likely the Leaf will run out of juice (24 kWh) after 50-60 mi - don't know for sure as Nissan's example is 70mi at 55mph in 95* heat. So if you want to do 100mi in those conditions, which aren't all that uncommon depending on where you live, unless you can substantially improve the efficiency of the vehicle, you are going to need about double the battery capacity - or about 50 kWh.

This is an inefficient EV. This will not be Toyota's production EV form. Don't be fooled by this clever co-marking carb ploy, if you know the history of the RAV4 and all the Tesla/Toyota back door deals it will all make sense what this is really about, it is not about Tesla helping Toyota make an EV because Toyota needs any help from them.