dcorby
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:36 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2016

Charging issue, electric panel is full, Load miser or $$$

Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:16 pm

My electrical panel is at maximum capacity, and the electrician told me that upgrading from 200 amps to 400 amps would cost 5000$....

Instead, he offer me to put a load miser between the oven and the car, with the oven being the essential load (so that my wife can cook at any time), and the car being the non-essential load (only powered when the oven is off) : http://acdandy.com/products/dandy-load-miser-energy-divider-controller/
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o7610hf41ljqkic/loadmiser%20shema1.pdf?dl=0

This would, of course, cause a few power interruption to the car during a cingle charging cycle... Would that be a problem ? Is it possible that after a few times, the car just stop charging and doesn't start again when the power gets back ? Would the car just start back like nothing happen ? Or like... after 3 times it would just stop to charge.

Thanks,

smkettner
Posts: 6977
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Charging issue, electric panel is full, Load miser or $$$

Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:28 pm

If you are using the timer and there is no power when expected I believe charging will not start when power comes on.
With no car timer set the intermittent power will not be an issue.

If timer is set for overnight when the oven is off you will not have an issue with that either.

But honestly I cannot imagine 200 amp panel is maxed out on power. Turn everything on and I think you would be lucky to see much more than 60 amps unless the house is unusually large. Probably just need a subpanel if the slots are all filled with twin breakers.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9452
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Charging issue, electric panel is full, Load miser or $$$

Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:35 pm

$5000 seems a little high. I would have thought more in the $3500-$4000 range. Have you gotten any other bids?
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 70,000 miles.
2015 pack under warranty 12/30/15.
Tinted windows.
Michelin MXV4 tires.
L1 EVSE upgrade.
FIAMM horns.
Superbright LED lighting.
2013 sun visors.
LED shifter.
Heated seats.
GT-R map lamp lenses.
AV L2 EVSE.

jjeff
Posts: 1342
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Charging issue, electric panel is full, Load miser or $$$

Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:18 pm

smkettner wrote:But honestly I cannot imagine 200 amp panel is maxed out on power. Turn everything on and I think you would be lucky to see much more than 60 amps unless the house is unusually large. Probably just need a subpanel if the slots are all filled with twin breakers.

I agree with this. 200a is already a pretty large panel, even if the OP has a very large house like you say more than likely the total draw would be nowhere near 200a, as you said probably closer to 60a. Simply remove a couple breakers to install a larger 240v breaker to feed a new sub panel, move what was on those breakers to the new sub panel and run your EV outlet off the new sub panel, plus with the new sub panel you'll have room for future expansion.
Note I said "simply" but I was talking "simply" for a qualified electrician :) Should be much cheaper to add a sub panel than pulling in a new service with a new larger panel.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

dcorby
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:36 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2016

Re: Charging issue, electric panel is full, Load miser or $$$

Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:42 am

My 200 amps if fully loaded, (not in # of breakers). I live In Québec, Canada. Here, all heating is electric. I allready have a CT installed on my main, and during cold night off winter, my house can draw as much as 180 amps !!! I want this load miser, it's my best option.

For the load miser, my electrician told me that he had already done this installation with a Tesla, and that after 3 cut of power, the Tesla would stop charging.

My question: Can a Nissan Leaf be cut of it's power more than 3 times during a single charge ?

Could someone do the test on it's own car ? (turn of the breaker for 10secs, put it back on, have a look at your car if it start charging again.... if yes, repeat until it won't restart to charge.....)

Thanks again for all your answers....

jjeff
Posts: 1342
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Charging issue, electric panel is full, Load miser or $$$

Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:47 am

dcorby wrote:My 200 amps if fully loaded, (not in # of breakers). I live In Québec, Canada. Here, all heating is electric. I allready have a CT installed on my main, and during cold night off winter, my house can draw as much as 180 amps !!! I want this load miser, it's my best option.

Yikes, 180amps! yes I didn't think of using electric for your primary heat source, don't want to add a high load to that.

dcorby wrote:My question: Can a Nissan Leaf be cut of it's power more than 3 times during a single charge ?

Could someone do the test on it's own car ? (turn of the breaker for 10secs, put it back on, have a look at your car if it start charging again.... if yes, repeat until it won't restart to charge.....)

Thanks again for all your answers....

I could do the test for you but I have a '13 and considering you might have a '16?? not sure if they'd be the same. I'd also wonder if it would make a difference what EVSE you plan on using.....what brand/model do you plan on using?
I was thinking I could just unplug and replug my EVSE for the test but it's probably best to use the breaker as it might not be the best idea to unplug a device drawing 27a and just unplugging from the car(using the stop charge button on the head) might not be an accurate test as to what you'd be doing. I could still do the test if you want(with the breaker), assuming it works how many cycles would you want me to try?
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

smkettner
Posts: 6977
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Charging issue, electric panel is full, Load miser or $$$

Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:08 pm

Wow 100+ amps of heat is a lot. I would be tempted to have the car as priority and shed one of the heating circuits instead of the oven.
Or maybe shed the electric water heater?

Of course I would get a clamp-on ammeter and verify the draw on both legs with all things max.
If you are really pulling 180 amps I think the main panel was undersized.

I am fairly sure if LEAF has no timer set it will continue to restart charging as power is available. Not sure I would want to have the LEAF charging system cycled that much as would be with the oven. This is why I suggest finding a load to can remain off for 2 to 6 hours while LEAF charges.

Also consider a lower charge rate such as Clipper Creek LCS-20 that just gives 15a at 240v. Maybe that would fit without the load shed.

Just some random thoughts. Good luck.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1289
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Charging issue, electric panel is full, Load miser or $$$

Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:07 pm

I am not sure what would happen with end timer only such as on an S, but charging will start when SL or SV is plugged in anytime during the timed charge period if both start and end times are set (at least on my 2011 and 2015). I don't think the Leaf will care if it sees a loss of power while charging as long as there are no severe transients and charging will restart when power returns, but I am concerned about long-term effects of cycling the onboard charger so much. I think your best alternative would be to shed another load for 4 hours while the Leaf charges. Cycling the charger will increase the L1/L2 charge count recorded in the Leaf's LBC (lithium battery controller, also called BMS for battery management system) and show up as frequent charging during the annual battery report. Since there is no language in the warranty (at least for USA cars) about frequent charging, I don't think Nissan could deny coverage, but they might try. Another concern is what type of relay is used in the power miser to shed load. I have a load controller to manage my peak demand at my house. It has small relays rated for 30 amperes maximum to shed the dryer and water heater (typically 25 amperes actual maximum load) and I am certain those little relays would not handle the continuous load of the 6 kW charger in my 2015.

Gerry
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

RonDawg
Posts: 2611
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Charging issue, electric panel is full, Load miser or $$$

Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:07 pm

mwalsh wrote:$5000 seems a little high. I would have thought more in the $3500-$4000 range. Have you gotten any other bids?


The OP didn't tell us his location until later, but CAD$5k is currently about US$3600 ;)
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

Superchewie
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 9:28 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Apr 2017

Re: Charging issue, electric panel is full, Load miser or $$$

Tue May 02, 2017 1:37 pm

Any update to this? Did you go ahead and have the load miser installed?

I'm in a similar situation. I'm currently constructing a laneway house (coach house) on a property where the principal dwelling also has a basement rental suite. My electrical load calc fits into a 200 amp service, but without an EV charger. And considering I just bought a Leaf...

I'd like to put a load miser on either the dryer (30A) or stove (40A) circuit in the coach house, but I've yet to be able to find out what happens to the "other side" of the circuit when the non-essential EV charger has possession of the circuit. For example, would it cut power to the stove entirely, continually resetting the clock, etc.?

Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks for your help!

Return to “EVSE / Charging Equipment and Networks”