NISSAN to abandon CHAdeMO in favor of CCS?

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TomT

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
10,656
Location
California, now Georgia
http://insideevs.com/nissan-engineer-seems-to-suggest-chademo-is-on-its-way-out-ccs-for-the-win/

Is CHAdeMO the HDDVD of the charging infrastructure landscape, while CCS is Blu-ray?

Tesla also recently joined CCS-based org CharIN. Looks like the writing is on the wall for CHAdeMO in the US anyways...as if Leaf resale values weren't hurting enough.

Manufacturers supporting CCS:

GM
BMW
Hyundai/Kia
VW
Daimler
and now Tesla

CHAdeMO:

Nissan
Mitsubishi (ha!)
Toyota (bigger HA!)
.....anyone else? Bueller?
 
<page not found>

But in any case, I'm not sure that joining the org indicates a manufacturer "supports the standard" in the larger sense.
 
There is a Chademo to Tesla adapter.

So far, there isn't a CCS to Tesla adapter. Maybe 'joining' means Tesla will come out with one.

Tesla has been required to provide non-Tesla charging stalls/ports alongside the European Superchargers. Read that somewhere. Part of the deal with Germany? https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...2-plugs-at-every-new-fast-charge-point.41141/

best link i could find.

Anyway, i have seen a few more "dual-powered" charge stations here in my Oregon world. Meaning, CCS and Chademo coming out of the same box. Kia dealerships have them. Not sure if u can use BOTH at the same time? Seems to be a good idea until Tesla rules all (oops, did I say that out loud?)
 
Nubo said:
<page not found>

But in any case, I'm not sure that joining the org indicates a manufacturer "supports the standard" in the larger sense.
Try this one: http://insideevs.com/nissan-engineer-seems-to-suggest-chademo-is-on-its-way-out-ccs-for-the-win/
And will TomT please fix the spelling in the topic title? It's CCS.
 
finman100 said:
Anyway, i have seen a few more "dual-powered" charge stations here in my Oregon world. Meaning, CCS and Chademo coming out of the same box. Kia dealerships have them. Not sure if u can use BOTH at the same time?

If they're the ABB ones, I think you can, though I've never seen it personally.
 
I used one once and only one side could charge at a time... Perhaps there is an option for both if the power feed can handle it...

RonDawg said:
finman100 said:
Anyway, i have seen a few more "dual-powered" charge stations here in my Oregon world. Meaning, CCS and Chademo coming out of the same box. Kia dealerships have them. Not sure if u can use BOTH at the same time?

If they're the ABB ones, I think you can, though I've never seen it personally.
 
finman100 said:
Anyway, i have seen a few more "dual-powered" charge stations here in my Oregon world. Meaning, CCS and Chademo coming out of the same box. Kia dealerships have them. Not sure if u can use BOTH at the same time? Seems to be a good idea until Tesla rules all (oops, did I say that out loud?)

Many are here in SoCal by NRG eVgo. Single user at a time, as once charging begins it's dedicated via the display
to either output.
 
finman100 said:
Anyway, i have seen a few more "dual-powered" charge stations here in my Oregon world.
I've seen a few, but the vast majority of chargers around here (including the West Coast Electric Highway) are Chademo only for QC.
Now, if they "update" those for a dual standard by the time I'm ready to buy another, then fine.
But if not, I'm probably going to lean towards the one that I have more availability around; which currently is Chademo.

And as for those ABB chargers, I know there is one in Tillamook, OR that has been installed for years and never worked. (At least the Chademo part; which for me is a non-working charger.)

Of course, the other side of that is...
If I can get a car with a 200 mile range, I won't generally need to charge away from home.
So do I really care what type of plug it has.... ;-)
(In over a year, over 95% of my Leaf's driving has been work and back (and that is 120 mile round trip)..)

desiv
 
Was thinking about this and was wondering - instead of abandoning CHAdeMO for CSS, how about considering the possibility that Nissan will join with Tesla and support their Supercharger standard and network?

Tesla did make the offer to open up their system to other makers a few years back as I recall.

If Nissan and Tesla were to combine their efforts here, I can think of several ways it would be mutually beneficial, but my guess is that it's probably too radical a step for Nissan to consider.
 
I don't see them joining..
OakLeaf said:
Tesla did make the offer to open up their system to other makers a few years back as I recall..
Yes, but that was just the technology.
So any other manufacturer could theoretically build their own Supercharger network (which I don't see happening) and/or put Supercharger plugs on their cars.
But that wouldn't mean a Nissan with a Supercharger plug could just use the Tesla Supercharger network.
On a basic tech connection level, yes..
But they would need to agree on payment for services.. At the least, car owners would have to pay Tesla still..

Imagine if Ford not only built cars, but owned all the gas stations and pump technology,
And they told any other manufacturers, of course you can use our gas pump technology.
But in order for a Chevy to fill up at a Ford gas station, Chevy owners would still have to pay Ford.

No way Chevy is going to do that... And no way would Nissan add Supercharger plugs to their cars.

Now, if the Supercharger network was it's own business, maybe.. But not while it's owned by Tesla too..

Personally, I don't see Superchargers being universal while they are owned by Tesla.

desiv
 
desiv said:
I don't see them joining..
OakLeaf said:
Tesla did make the offer to open up their system to other makers a few years back as I recall..
Yes, but that was just the technology.
No, theoretically the Supercharger network is open to other manufacturers:

"The intent of the Supercharger network is not to create a walled garden. Any other manufacturer that's interested in using them, we'd be happy to accommodate. It's just that they need to be able to accept the power level of the Superchargers, which is currently 135kW and rising, so any car needs to meet the Supercharger standard. And they'd also need to agree with the business model, which is we don't charge people on a per-charge basis. They'd need to contribute to the capital costs proportional to their fleet's usage of the network." -- http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/09/tesla-to-share-supercharger-patents/
 
wmcbrine said:
No, theoretically the Supercharger network is open to other manufacturers:
I agreed it was open to other manufacturers and that they could add the tech whenever they wanted, so I'm not sure what the "No" is for....

Yes, it's open.
And no other manufacturer is going to use it while Tesla owns it.. ;-)

desiv
 
desiv said:
wmcbrine said:
No, theoretically the Supercharger network is open to other manufacturers:
I agreed it was open to other manufacturers and that they could add the tech whenever they wanted, so I'm not sure what the "No" is for....

Yes, it's open.
And no other manufacturer is going to use it while Tesla owns it.. ;-)

desiv
Yes, it is hard to imagine another car company buying into a system emblazoned with the Tesla name:

25589111523_55e4cd1410_z.jpg


Supercharging in Moab UT^

Although I suppose that the new manufacturer could open stations with their own name on them and cars could use both types.


A bigger hurdle for Nissan is that they would have to switch to a temperature management system to control the heat from charging at 90-135 kW power levels. Nissan does not seem inclined to go with TMS, so far as I've seen, and current battery tech can't charge at those speeds without some sort of cooling.
 
Regarding the InsideEVs article. I just posted this information there in the comments to attempt to dispel unwarranted rumors.

"There appears to be some misunderstanding. For the record I never said CHAdeMO was on the way out and never meant to imply it. I was only attempting to point out that in general battery energy density is increasing and capacity is growing – for all makers and in general. To maintain a charge time similar to what we have now the charge rate must increase – in general and in the future. Which standard is decided to accomplish this I cannot say and did not say. I do not even know if that is known yet. I only attempted to illustrate my point with hypothetical examples.

Please do not take general comments out of context. That does not accomplish anything useful. I do not reveal future product plans even when I am aware of them; and I am not aware of them in this case. I had only hoped to have a dialog regarding where electric vehicles are headed somewhere down the road in the future.

We all want EVs to succeed. My apologies if I was not clear in my 140 character Tweets. That format is not conducive to exacting detail."

Thank you,

Barry Koval
Nissan employee
Opinions expressed here are my own.
 
kovalb said:
Regarding the InsideEVs article. I just posted this information there in the comments to attempt to dispel unwarranted rumors.
Thanks for the extra clarification. I've been watching the Chademo/CSS discussion on-going for years, but have said very little because I'm just a neophyte. However, I think Tony Williams has been the most "enthusiastic" participant on this topic. I think I remember him saying something about how the current Chademo/CSS standard will eventually be surpassed by something (maybe Level 3??) much faster as future batteries get larger or have higher internal voltages. This makes technical sense, just like today most people are using internet connectivity, WiFi and USBs on computers instead of 360 KB 5" floppy disks. Perhaps in 2020 all new EV's will come standard with 200 KWh, 800 VDC batteries and 400 amp charging. 300-400 KW quick charging will make today's 50 KW Chademo/CSS discussion and Tesla's 135 KW standard look pretty pathetic. I doubt it will be that fast, but maybe by 2030? Perhaps by then we will even have solar-powered stations all with back up batteries, but again, I doubt it will happen out here in the sticks.
 
Scary analogy regarding the 5" floppy disks. PC data storage and transfer went through quite a number of turnovers to get where we are today. IIRC, started with 8" floppies (dating myself), then 5" (first 360kb, then 1.2mb), then 3.5" (1.44mb) then zip drives (various iterations), then CD/DVD of different flavors and portable HDDs then finally thumb drives and cloud. That's 9+/- in 37 years I've been using computers. And that isn't counting tape drives and associated media options or SD, Micro-SD, XD, etc.. I do hope the automakers/governments can compress this down.
 
Back
Top