Reimbursing Neighbor for L2 Charging

I'm about to pick up a 2013 or 2014 SL or SV. The restaurant next to me has a Aerovironment dual L2 charger that I am hoping to use daily. How can I go about metering my usage so I can accurately reimburse him? It does not have a dedicated electric meter on it.

Thanks.

Not to be facetious, but the amount of electricity you use will barely register a blip on a restaurant's electric bill.
Don't know what kind of a relationship you have with them (sounds like a good one), but $20/month should clear your conscience. I drive ~800 miles/month on 200kW*10 cents/kW.

paulsalem said:

I'm about to pick up a 2013 or 2014 SL or SV. The restaurant next to me has a Aerovironment dual L2 charger that I am hoping to use daily. How can I go about metering my usage so I can accurately reimburse him? It does not have a dedicated electric meter on it.

Thanks.

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10 cents/kwh is a good base. Assuming a 6.6kw EVSE and charger in your car it will cost the restaurant roughly 66 cents/hr of use. A fully depleted battery at that rate will take about 4hrs to charge, at that rate it would cost the restaurant about $2.50 in electricity to fully charge your battery, again starting at almost discharged condition.
You could offer to pay but if he says no and you like to eat at the restaurant maybe just make it a practice to eat there a couple times/month. That should help him recoup the electricity money and get you something to eat......just a thought. As Stanton said a commercial establishment like a restaurant probably has a $500+ electricity bill/month, they really won't feel your drain but it sounds like your going about it right asking.

paulsalem said:

I'm about to pick up a 2013 or 2014 SL or SV. The restaurant next to me has a Aerovironment dual L2 charger that I am hoping to use daily. How can I go about metering my usage so I can accurately reimburse him? It does not have a dedicated electric meter on it.

Thanks.

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This Leaf forum has charts for that.
http://nissanleaf.guru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12

Pick the 24kWh chart, and use the electrical rate that the restaurant is paying to line up the charge you want. This is something you can print out and show to them for more proof than just a "wink, trust me" if they don't know anything about how electrical rates work.

For example, is the restaurant is paying $0.10 per kilowatt hour for electricity and you drive in at 50% left on the vehicle and charge to 100%, then it cost them about $1.20 in electricity.

That would be the easiest way to use the honors system with them. If they want more exact numbers, they would need a separate meter.

Thanks for the info guys. He said no because he doesn't want to give up the parking space even for $50 / month.

My landlord said I could pay an electrician to put a 110V outlet into a parking lot light pole.

paulsalem said:

Thanks for the info guys. He said no because he doesn't want to give up the parking space even for $50 / month.

My landlord said I could pay an electrician to put a 120V outlet into a parking lot light pole.

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120v will be fine assuming you aren't charging outside at 80F or hotter. I charge at work on 120v all the time when it is cool out but avoid it in the summer due to capacity degradation caused by keeping the battery hot.

In the summer I charge on 240V at 4am in my attached garage that tends to stay more like 75F in the summer. It still gets warmer than I want but not as bad as charging in the middle of the day.

120v will be fine assuming you aren't charging outside at 80F or hotter. I charge at work on 120v all the time when it is cool out but avoid it in the summer due to capacity degradation caused by keeping the battery hot.

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You can charge with L-1 in hot weather as long as the battery pack isn't hot. Charge at no more than six temp bars on the dash display and you'll be ok. I try for no more than five bars, but if it doesn't exceed six you should be fine. The pack is massive, and takes a long time to heat or cool, plus L-1 adds only a little heat.

paulsalem said:

...My landlord said I could pay an electrician to put a 110V outlet into a parking lot light pole.

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120v is OK but most parking lot lights are also 208v, maybe you could talk your landlord into a 220v L6-30 or even L6-20 outlet?
If you did that you could have EVSEupgrade upgrade your factory EVSE and you'd be good to go. Note I believe they now only install the L6-30 plug but maybe you could talk them into a L6-20 plug if your landlord only wanted to install a 20a 240v circuit.
If your landlord only wanted to let you install a 120v outlet more than likely it would be a 20a circuit. If this is the case and you didn't mind purchasing another EVSE you could purchase a Ebusbar EVSE off Amazon(I have one). $299 shipped and it charges at 16a on either 120v or 208/240v. The factory EVSE tops out at 12a @120v whether upgraded or not, a upgraded EVSE will put out 20a but only @208/240v.

jjeff said:

paulsalem said:

...My landlord said I could pay an electrician to put a 110V outlet into a parking lot light pole.

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120v is OK but most parking lot lights are also 208v, maybe you could talk your landlord into a 220v L6-30 or even L6-20 outlet?
If you did that you could have EVSEupgrade upgrade your factory EVSE and you'd be good to go. Note I believe they now only install the L6-30 plug but maybe you could talk them into a L6-20 plug if your landlord only wanted to install a 20a 240v circuit.
If your landlord only wanted to let you install a 120v outlet more than likely it would be a 20a circuit. If this is the case and you didn't mind purchasing another EVSE you could purchase a Ebusbar EVSE off Amazon(I have one). $299 shipped and it charges at 16a on either 120v or 208/240v. The factory EVSE tops out at 12a @120v whether upgraded or not, a upgraded EVSE will put out 20a but only @208/240v.

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Wow thanks for all of this info. I had no idea it was this complex, I figure every 220v outlet looked the same. I didn't realize that amperage actually changed the plug shape.

I have an electrician coming out tomorrow to check things out. So 220v L6-30 is my first choice, 220v L6-20 is second, and third is 120V 20amp circuit is my third choice.

Why 220v instead of 240?

Is there anything else I should know or am missing? I'm a techy guy by nature but electricity is just black magic to me.

jjeff said:

paulsalem said:

Ebusbar EVSE off Amazon(I have one). $299 shipped and it charges at 16a on either 120v or 208/240v. The factory EVSE tops out at 12a @120v whether upgraded or not, a upgraded EVSE will put out 20a but only @208/240v.

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Isn't a 120V 20a going ot have a standard outlet. This Ebusbar won't work with it right?

paulsalem said:

Wow thanks for all of this info. I had no idea it was this complex, I figure every 220v outlet looked the same. I didn't realize that amperage actually changed the plug shape.

I have an electrician coming out tomorrow to check things out. So 220v L6-30 is my first choice, 220v L6-20 is second, and third is 120V 20amp circuit is my third choice.

Why 220v instead of 240?

Is there anything else I should know or am missing? I'm a techy guy by nature but electricity is just black magic to me.

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From what I've seen, Light Poles at Apartment/Condos are usually 120v, you only see the 240v when you have a lot more powerful lights (highway, shopping center, etc.) So it is likely you'll only get a 120v outlet. Either way, go for the biggest amp you can (20A, heck maybe 30A) and then you'll know about what options you have for charging when trying to match up the biggest EVSE to the amps max that the outlet can support.

As for the 220v instead 240v, a lot of places use 3 phase wiring for over +200v that doesn't give you a full 240v like would expect at a house or apartment complex, so you might instead get 208v or 220v.

knightmb said:

]
From what I've seen, Light Poles at Apartment/Condos are usually 120v, you only see the 240v when you have a lot more powerful lights (highway, shopping center, etc.) So it is likely you'll only get a 120v outlet. Either way, go for the biggest amp you can (20A, heck maybe 30A) and then you'll know about what options you have for charging when trying to match up the biggest EVSE to the amps max that the outlet can support.

As for the 220v instead 240v, a lot of places use 3 phase wiring for over +200v that doesn't give you a full 240v like would expect at a house or apartment complex, so you might instead get 208v or 220v.

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Thanks for the info. I called EVSEUpgrade and they explained the differences in plug types for 120v 15a vs 120v 20a (no such thing as 30a on 120v). Basically they'll hook me up with all the plug adapters I need to plug into just about anything, and I can adjust the EVSE to draw 12a or 16a depending on what circuit I'm on.

Stanton said:

but $20/month should clear your conscience. I drive ~800 miles/month on 200kW*10 cents/kW.

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It's kWh, NOT kW.

kW and kWh are very different metrics. It's the same as confusing gallons with horsepower. Think of kW = horsepower, kWh = gallons.

If one charges at 1 kW (or 1000 watts) for 6 hours, 6 kWh came out of the wall. If it's at 6 kW for 1 hour, it's also 6 kWh. If it's 1 watt for 6000 hours, it's also 6 kWh.

10 cents/kWh is FAR cheaper than Pacific Gouge and Extort land. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155519#p155519 is old and when there were more tiers. They've been flattening the tiers, so on E-1 (non-time of use plan), per page 1 of http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf, each kWh ranges from 18.2 to almost 40 cents/kWh.

I'd guess that each of those 200 kWh would be at the highest marginal rate of almost 40 cents/kWh. (My allotted baseline is 10.1 kwH/day or 303 kWh/month assuming 30 days. Each kWh up to 303 kWh costs 18.2 cents. Beyond that, it starts costing more.)

Tell me how many kWh you used in a summer month, and I'll tell you what your horrific bill would be on PG&E, if on E-1. Want a TOU plan? I'm on E-6 (see page 2 and 4 of http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-6.pdf for the byzantine rate structure).

paulsalem said:

jjeff said:

paulsalem said:

Ebusbar EVSE off Amazon(I have one). $299 shipped and it charges at 16a on either 120v or 208/240v. The factory EVSE tops out at 12a @120v whether upgraded or not, a upgraded EVSE will put out 20a but only @208/240v.

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Isn't a 120V 20a going ot have a standard outlet. This Ebusbar won't work with it right?

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The Ebusbar has a 240v plug but if you(or an electrician) makes you a 10-30(240v outlet) to 5-15(standard 120v plug) adapter cable you can run the Ebusbar off of 120v. The unit itself works on either 120v or 240v but the plug just happens to be a 240v plug so it won't plug into a standard 120v outlet.

paulsalem said:

jjeff said:

paulsalem said:

...My landlord said I could pay an electrician to put a 110V outlet into a parking lot light pole.

Click to expand...

120v is OK but most parking lot lights are also 208v, maybe you could talk your landlord into a 220v L6-30 or even L6-20 outlet?
If you did that you could have EVSEupgrade upgrade your factory EVSE and you'd be good to go. Note I believe they now only install the L6-30 plug but maybe you could talk them into a L6-20 plug if your landlord only wanted to install a 20a 240v circuit.
If your landlord only wanted to let you install a 120v outlet more than likely it would be a 20a circuit. If this is the case and you didn't mind purchasing another EVSE you could purchase a Ebusbar EVSE off Amazon(I have one). $299 shipped and it charges at 16a on either 120v or 208/240v. The factory EVSE tops out at 12a @120v whether upgraded or not, a upgraded EVSE will put out 20a but only @208/240v.

Click to expand...

Wow thanks for all of this info. I had no idea it was this complex, I figure every 220v outlet looked the same. I didn't realize that amperage actually changed the plug shape.

I have an electrician coming out tomorrow to check things out. So 220v L6-30 is my first choice, 220v L6-20 is second, and third is 120V 20amp circuit is my third choice.

Why 220v instead of 240?

Is there anything else I should know or am missing? I'm a techy guy by nature but electricity is just black magic to me.

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1. The amperage doesn't necessarily change with each outlet type but outlets are usually sized for the maximum current the circuit will supply. That is you wouldn't want a 30a outlet on a 20a circuit as then someone with a 30a device might plug it into your outlet and overload the circuit. In the case of your power pole outlet if it's only going to be a 20a 240v circuit you don't want to install a L6-30(30a outlet) a L6-20(20a outlet) would be a better choice.
2. Yes but only a L6-30 if your going to get a 30a circuit which is probably not going to happen.
3. I just kind of split the difference. Commercial power is generally 208v and home power is 240v which is sometimes called 220v, standard outlets are 120v on either commercial or residential power. Commercial is almost always 20a circuits, home can be either but are generally 20a on newer homes or kitchens/garage circuits.

paulsalem said:

knightmb said:

]
From what I've seen, Light Poles at Apartment/Condos are usually 120v, you only see the 240v when you have a lot more powerful lights (highway, shopping center, etc.) So it is likely you'll only get a 120v outlet. Either way, go for the biggest amp you can (20A, heck maybe 30A) and then you'll know about what options you have for charging when trying to match up the biggest EVSE to the amps max that the outlet can support.

As for the 220v instead 240v, a lot of places use 3 phase wiring for over +200v that doesn't give you a full 240v like would expect at a house or apartment complex, so you might instead get 208v or 220v.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I called EVSEUpgrade and they explained the differences in plug types for 120v 15a vs 120v 20a (no such thing as 30a on 120v). Basically they'll hook me up with all the plug adapters I need to plug into just about anything, and I can adjust the EVSE to draw 12a or 16a depending on what circuit I'm on.

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Actually they do make a 30a 120v plug, it's the somewhat obsolete buy still widely used TT30, in use in basically every RV park in the nation.
Yes EVSEUpgrade does make some nice converter plugs, the only reason I didn't mention them in regards to the Ebusbar EVSE is that EVSE uses a old 240v range plug(10-30) and converter cables for that type of plug would have to be home made. Personally I just cut the 10-30 plug off my Ebusbar EVSE and wired on a L6-30 plug, much easier to find converter plugs for the "L" or locking variety of plugs verses the old style range plugs.

jjeff said:

Actually they do make a 30a 120v plug, it's the somewhat obsolete buy still widely used TT30, in use in basically every RV park in the nation.

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I can still buy 30a 120v outlets at my local Home Depot or Lowe's , so I know it's possible. As has been said though, the wire would have to be at least 10 gauge wire to carry that much power and if the pole has to be rewired for it, that could get expensive really quick. The win would be 208v/240v wiring for the pole (if it is already) because then you can double up on charging power without needing extra thick wire to be put in place.

I get caught in this trap a lot, ask the tech, What is the easiest way to put a 30 or 50 Amp plug in this parking lot? what location would be easy? He or She may know something you don't. like an A/C unit that is on the other side of a wall or power that is in place already? Have they come out and look yet? I like my Juice box pro charger by the way...

speedski97 said:

I get caught in this trap a lot, ask the tech, What is the easiest way to put a 30 or 50 Amp plug in this parking lot? what location would be easy? He or She may know something you don't. like an A/C unit that is on the other side of a wall or power that is in place already? Have they come out and look yet? I like my Juice box pro charger by the way...

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I've got an electrician coming out tomorrow to look at the site.

where are you? What location are you in? have you looked for help funding the charging station?