webeleafowners
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Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:14 pm

jjeff wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:
jjeff wrote:Yes I believe it's your Smart ED limiting the 120v charging to 12a, just like the 3.3kw Leaf charger would. EVs will always charge at the lowest of either the EVSE maximum output or charger in the car, in the case of only charging at 12a @ 120v with your Juicebox it's the car limiting the charging to 12a. The same EVSE hooked to a 6.6kw Leaf charger would draw 27.5a @ 120v(or whatever you've set your Juicebox maximum output to but not more than 27.5 as that's the maximum the Leaf will accept).
I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.


Think I got it. Its not a power thing, (3.3K) its a current thing. Regardless of 240 or 120 it will limit to 12 amps (technically I think 11.7 or something like that) Is that right? Eg if I want the full three 3.3 KW I need to be on 240 volt.

Correct, to get 3.3kw you need to use 240v.


Thanks for staying with me on this. It' wasn't the math or the physics that I was struggling with (technologist by trade) but the design limitations and understanding what was doing the current limiting that I wasn't sure of.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KW
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

wmcbrine
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Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:33 pm

jjeff wrote:I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.

"The standard as now written addresses two charging levels:

AC Level 1: 120 V, 1 phase, up to 16 A

AC Level 2: 240 V, 1 phase, up to 80 A" -- http://articles.sae.org/7479/

(IIRC it was originally 32 A max @ 240 V, but Tesla lobbied for the increase.)

Now, obviously a cable which is capable of 32 A @ 240 V could just as well do it @ 120 V, but technically it is (was?) outside of the standard.

jjeff
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Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:43 pm

wmcbrine wrote:
jjeff wrote:I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.

"The standard as now written addresses two charging levels:

AC Level 1: 120 V, 1 phase, up to 16 A

AC Level 2: 240 V, 1 phase, up to 80 A" -- http://articles.sae.org/7479/

(IIRC it was originally 32 A max @ 240 V, but Tesla lobbied for the increase.)

Now, obviously a cable which is capable of 32 A @ 240 V could just as well do it @ 120 V, but technically it is (was?) outside of the standard.

Interesting, thanks. It's odd then that my '13 Leaf(with 6.6kw charger) will draw the same 27.5a @ either 120v or 240v :? but I agree about the gauge of the wire, if anything a particular gauge wire should be able to draw even more current @ a lower voltage, due to less watts of heat dissipated by the wire but maybe I'm thinking wrong. For sure a lower voltage wouldn't be any harder on the wire :)
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

ElectricEddy
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Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:05 pm

jjeff wrote:
wmcbrine wrote:
jjeff wrote:I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.

"The standard as now written addresses two charging levels:

AC Level 1: 120 V, 1 phase, up to 16 A

AC Level 2: 240 V, 1 phase, up to 80 A" -- http://articles.sae.org/7479/

(IIRC it was originally 32 A max @ 240 V, but Tesla lobbied for the increase.)

Now, obviously a cable which is capable of 32 A @ 240 V could just as well do it @ 120 V, but technically it is (was?) outside of the standard.

Interesting, thanks. It's odd then that my '13 Leaf(with 6.6kw charger) will draw the same 27.5a @ either 120v or 240v :? but I agree about the gauge of the wire, if anything a particular gauge wire should be able to draw even more current @ a lower voltage, due to less watts of heat dissipated by the wire but maybe I'm thinking wrong. For sure a lower voltage wouldn't be any harder on the wire :)

If the cable from the EVSE is #10 AWG ( or equivalent) supplying 30 A , no problem!
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GlennD
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Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:03 pm

Both my current eGolf and my 2013 Leaf violate the J1772 spec. The car's only care about current and they ignore the voltage. They follow the pilot so the included L1 charger at 12A works well. If you ignore the L1 specs and set your EVSE to charge at 24A then you can safely charge at high current at 120VAC. This is not to specification and you need an EVSE that ignores the J1772 specifications. Given all of that 24A at a truck stop or RV park is doable. I know OpenEVSE works but I have not tried others. From the comments the JuiceBox is limited to 12A.. It really depends on the EVSE.
2012 Cayenne Red SL traded for:
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webeleafowners
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Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:41 pm

I would be curious which EVSE's ignore the J1772 rules. For example, does the duosida ignore do this? How about the units from "EVSE upgrade".

Thanks in advance.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KW
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

alozzy
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Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:54 pm

The Zencar 32A portable EVSE that I just purchased is supposed to, although I can't confirm that unequivocally until I visit an RV park and give it a go with a TT30 receptacle.

Jjeff can probably confirm that, as he recommended the Zencar to me and owns one himself...
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:38 am

wmcbrine wrote:Now, obviously a cable which is capable of 32 A @ 240 V could just as well do it @ 120 V, but technically it is (was?) outside of the standard.


Outside the US, the SAE-J1772-2009 / 2010 plug / Type 1 (Europe) / Yazaki plug (Japan) is limited to 30 amps maximum. In Europe, in practice, Type 1 is limited to 16 amps.

The singular thing the SAE did (after copying the Yazaki plug) was drastically change the amps and acknowledge the US standards or 120 and 208/240v in the US. I have no idea what theywere talking about in "5000 hours of meetings", because the actual end product is a Yazaki plug design. Most of the electronic design is from the AVCON predecessor.

Again, please understand that these SAE restrictions to amps only applies to the US, and it's not a law. So, everybody follows the actual IEC 62196-2 worldwide standards, that were preceded by the IEC 61851-2001 / SAE J1772-2001 "AVCON" standards for proximity detection and for the control pilot function.

I'm not aware of many cars that are specifically limited to 16 amps or less on 100-130 volts. The BMW i3 is, the Volt, and probably the Bolt. I'm sure there are others.

The LEAF is not. It will charge up to 27.5 amps from 100 volts to 264 volts. Tesla products (which includes 2012-2014 Toyota Rav4 EV and Mercedes B-Class ED / B250e) are limited to 20 amps on 100-130 volts, however the newer cars post 2015 are now 24 amps. This is perfect for plugging into RV parks / campgrounds with "30 amp service".

On the charge cable side of the equation, I suspect many commercially available EVSE are limited to 12 amps on 120 volts. The Tesla UMC / JESLA is not (40 amps max). Our Go-Cable is not (16 amps max on 100-264 volts).

jjeff
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Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:35 am

webeleafowners wrote:I would be curious which EVSE's ignore the J1772 rules. For example, does the duosida ignore do this? How about the units from "EVSE upgrade".

Thanks in advance.

It's my guess that all the L2 EVSEs that also work on 120v ignore the 12a limit. I know all mine do and will happily charge at 120v at all the current settings they will do on 240v. Well I guess except my '13 EVSEupgrade'd EVSE which will do 20a L2 but restricts 120v to 12a :(
Note I'm almost positive the new Juiceboxe's output full amperage on 120v, their old ones do and from looking at their website it looks like the new ones do, I know I personally wouldn't be interested in any EVSE that didn't :)
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

webeleafowners
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
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Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:22 am

jjeff wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:I would be curious which EVSE's ignore the J1772 rules. For example, does the duosida ignore do this? How about the units from "EVSE upgrade".

Thanks in advance.

It's my guess that all the L2 EVSEs that also work on 120v ignore the 12a limit. I know all mine do and will happily charge at 120v at all the current settings they will do on 240v. Well I guess except my '13 EVSEupgrade'd EVSE which will do 20a L2 but restricts 120v to 12a :(
Note I'm almost positive the new Juiceboxe's output full amperage on 120v, their old ones do and from looking at their website it looks like the new ones do, I know I personally wouldn't be interested in any EVSE that didn't :)


Well, at least on our smart car, our leads than one year old juice box only charges at 12 amps on 120. Haven't tried the leaf yet.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KW
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

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