About to purcahse a new EVSE. Last minute suggestions???

Good morning all. Angela and I have arrived at our place in Palm Springs for the winter. We brought our smart ED (on trailer beyond the motorhome). We are going to pick up an EVSE while we are here and avoid the shipping costs to Canada. Although our little smart only has level two charging we want to purchase an EVSE that will work for us in the future when we will probably purchase the next gen Leaf with level three charging. I would welcome suggestions on what to purchase. Here are a few things to take into consideration. We are having a standard 220 volt 14-50 RV/Stove plug installed in the garage when we get home and would like to be able to plug the unit into it. Portability of the unit is a must.

Thanks in advance. Hoping to see a 40 KW or greater leaf in the driveway within a year or so.

John and Angela

Level 3 is strictly commercial and it is not for home use. L2 max's out at 80A but no cars draw that. Except for Tesla based cars the max is 30A. My Mercedes B charged at 40A and on the same EVSE my eGolf charges at 30A.

The EVSE gives the maximum current available and the car takes what it needs and it ignores the rest. My B took all 40A but my eGolf takes 30A and it ignores the other 10A.

As long as the car follows the J1772 spec then the car will work with any EVSE. Going from 30A to 40A is very expensive and most of the time 30A will do just fine overnight.

Clipper Creek makes fine EVSEs but the model number is the required circuit. A 40A circuit will support 32A (80% of 40A). A 50A circuit like I have can support 40A and on my B I needed that.

You may want to make sure it can charge the car from power from a generator or inverter in the RV in a pinch? The smart charges at 16 amps max. juice box pro, or quick charge are nice units that should work well for you. they can charge on 120 AC or 208/240. In RV camps I have had challenges with a ground and voltage in parks. you might look for a more useable EVSE to buy.

Since you travel in the RV world with 50 amp outlets I recommend the Clipper Creek HCS-50 to give maximum 40 amp charging as vehicles include upgraded charging. If you end up at a 30 amp site you will probably just use the included L1.

Also consider power sharing with the RV. You may want a lower rated EVSE. 40(32a charging), 30(24 amp charging) are also available with 14-50 plug that you will have at RV parks. You would need to make a box with a 50 amp plug and two 50 amp outlets to share power. Your choice may depend on how the RV is used. If you pull in and expect to run both air conditioners, electric water heat and cook in the microwave at the same time you top up the vehicle maybe go with the 30 or a 25 so it will not cramp your style. Or if the vehicle will be charging overnight maybe get the 40 or 30 as the RV will have lower draw while you sleep. Either way I would get a 14-50 plug-in to go direct in the RV pedestal supply or share with an adapter.

Personally I'd get a Juicebox, it has the advantage that you can match the output power to your input source. You only have 15a 120v, fine with the Juicebox, set it to 12a and your good to go. You only have a TT30(30a 120v outlet) fine with the Juicebox, set it for 24a or less and your good to go. You have access to a 14-50(standard 50a RV 240v plug) set the Juicebox to 40a and your Smart will only draw what it needs, sounds like 16a. While Clipper Creek EVSEs are nice you buy them for basically only one amperage and voltage(240v) they aren't very flexible. True if you purchase a 40a Clipper Creek it will only output 16a in the case of your Smart Car, if you get a different vehicle and it has a 40a built in charger, you can't limit the Clipper Creek to anything less than 40a max, with a Juicebox or similar EVSE that lets you set output current you can dial it down to whatever you want(although I believe 6a is the least EVs will go, at least a Leaf).
JB does sell a cheaper EVSE than the one I'm linking($100 cheaper) but I don't believe it lets you adjust the output current(or at least without taking the EVSE apart) the one I linked uses your cell phone to adjust output current and do lots of other thinks you might like.
https://emotorwerks.com/store-juicebox-ev-charging-stations/202-juicebox-pro-40-smart-40-amp-evse-with-24-foot-cable/category_pathway-23
$599 with a nice 24' long cable and 14-50 RV type input plug. Note to use the JB on other plugs/voltages you can purchase outlet adapters that say have a standard 120v plug on one end and a 14-50 female receptacle on the other to plug the JB into. I believe JB sells such outlet adapters as well as Amazon and for lots of different adapters and even custom ones there is a guy right her on MNL(VegasBrad) that will make you whatever you need, including probably even a 14-50 male/female female adapter to allow you to plug both your RV and EVSE into one 14-50 outlet. In this case it will really be handy to be able to limit the EVSE output current so you don't overload the out if drawing a lot of current in your RV.
VegasBrad also sells built EVSEs with a nice display, none of the current JBs have a display, you have to use a cell phone to see anything. Here is a link to VBs catalog, I believe he has EVSEs with a display and ability to adjust output current starting ~$500. He's also good about customizing things, need a 30' cable, no problem with Brad as he basically custom builds them for you.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hc6ei1dkkqwbiwz/BSAelectronics%20EVSE%20flyer.pdf?dl=0

So first of all thank you for all the very informative replys. I think I have the terminology right now as well regarding the level 1 level 2 level 3 thing. I am leaning towards the JUICE BOX and the Vegas solution. We are buying this week so I'll let you all know.

Thanks again.

John and Angela.

GlennD said:

Level 3 is strictly commercial and it is not for home use.

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In practice, that's true; but it is now possible to buy a CHAdeMO unit that you can use at home, if you're willing to spend about $4000. I'm not (yet), since that's almost half what I paid for my car. But I'm tempted. My car's built-in charger will only do 3.3kW, but I have a 50A circuit for my EVSE. Via CHAdeMO, I should be able to draw 40A sustained from that same circuit, or ~9.6kW. That's slow for CHAdeMO, but almost three times what I can do on Level 2.

One more question. I believe right now the leaf charges at a max rate of 6.6 KW. Any changes expected in the future...eg is it worth going to a 50 amp unit. The BSA product are almost the same price for higher capacity units. Thanks in advance;

John.

OK I lied. What size EVSE does the leaf come with. 6.6 or 3.3. I know it has an internal 6.6 charger but what EVSE do they provide you with?

Thanks again.

Wannabeleafowner said:

I am leaning towards the JUICE BOX

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Another vote for JuiceBox Pro 40. Seems like a perfect solution for your situation.

Wannabeleafowner said:

OK I lied. What size EVSE does the leaf come with. 6.6 or 3.3. I know it has an internal 6.6 charger but what EVSE do they provide you with?

Thanks again.

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Most modern Leafs have the 6.6kw built in charger, the supplied 120v EVSE is only 1.4kw. I haven't read anything about Nissan upgrading the built in charger but it would only make sense as their battery gets bigger and bigger. I really doubt we'll see a built in charger exceeding 40a so if you wanted to future-proof I'd suggest something like the 40a Juicebox or similar EVSE built and sold by VegasBrad.
Don't be confused by the much larger capacity L3 or fast charger socket, IMO they will continue to be basically for commercial use and not home use.

Thank you. I sent an email to Brad in Vegas. I like some of the features. Also I kinda like supporting a small North American start up as opposed to overseas.

Wannabeleafowner said:

..... Also I kinda like supporting a somewhat small North American start up as opposed to overseas.

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I assume your talking about Brad but Juicebox is also a small startup out of Silicon Valley CA, albeit a bigger company than Brads. I purchased my Juicebox back when they sold not only built EVSEs but also kits for the DIY people. I don't believe they do that anymore, probably a liability issue. I believe they are still made in the US, probably in CA but I'm not positive. The nice thing about Brad is he's small enough to custom build your order, JuiceBox use to also do this but I due to their size I don't believe they do that anymore.

Can someone please post the math involved in the charging equation? How does 120v = 26 hours, 240v = 8 hours and the quick charge = 30 minutes?

oleviking said:

Can someone please post the math involved in the charging equation? How does 120v = 26 hours, 240v = 8 hours and the quick charge = 30 minutes?

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120v x 12a x 26h = 37,440 watt/hours

240v x 28a x 8h = 53,760 watt/hours

400v x 60a x .5h = 12,000 watt/hours

L1 will not taper off and LEAF tends to way over estimate time.
L2 will taper the charge some over 80%
L3 is just charging to 80%

Numbers might be off some but that is the gist of it.

smkettner said:

oleviking said:

Can someone please post the math involved in the charging equation? How does 120v = 26 hours, 240v = 8 hours and the quick charge = 30 minutes?

Click to expand...

120v x 12a x 26h = 37,440 watt/hours

240v x 28a x 8h = 53,760 watt/hours

400v x 60a x .5h = 12,000 watt/hours

L1 will not taper off and LEAF tends to way over estimate time.
L2 will taper the charge some over 80%
L3 is just charging to 80%

Numbers might be off some but that is the gist of it.

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I typically see 120 amperes until charge rate starts to taper on L3 so that would be more like 24,000 watt-hours which is closer to the other numbers (30 minutes will not give a full charge). L2 will never take 8 hours with the 6 kW onboard charger so that number is a little high. Charging estimates on the dashboard display for L1 and L2 are always higher than actual charging time.

Gerry

Great, makes things much clearer when discussing the various EVSE units, so if I can install a 50 a breaker, then the 40 amp unit can be used and the 240v x 40a x 3 hours would roughly equal a full charge on my 30KWH battery.

oleviking said:

Great, makes things much clearer when discussing the various EVSE units, so if I can install a 50 a breaker, then the 40 amp unit can be used and the 240v x 40a x 3 hours would roughly equal a full charge on my 30KWH battery.

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No, because the charger in the Leaf is only 6kw (roughly 27 amps). The higher capacity EVSE will provide for faster charging in the future (depending on which electric vehicle you purchase), but it is excess capacity for present use. The pilot signal is used for communication between the EVSE and the car. The EVSE advertises it capability, and then the car decides how much to pull. The car won't try to pull more than the EVSE can provide, and won't pull more than the charger can actually use.

So the math on a 240v circuit is 240 x 27 x 4.6 hours = 30,000 wh? So how does the 6.6 wh charger = 27 a?

oleviking said:

So the math on a 240v circuit is 240 x 27 x 4.6 hours = 30,000 wh? So how does the 6.6 wh charger = 27 a?

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I=P/E or
27.5a=6600w/240v
or 6600wX4.6h=30,360wh

I is current, P is power and E is voltage.