powagoat
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:46 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2017
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Going to run a circuit - Siemens Versicharge?

Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:08 pm

I had an electrician check it out and he didn't see any problem adding the circuit. Getting a quote from him and a couple others.

Although I did discover that my entire basement isn't on a single 30 amp so there is a chance that I might not do it... But man, to have quicker charging would be nice.
2015 S Gun Metal Gray

GerryAZ
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Going to run a circuit - Siemens Versicharge?

Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:41 pm

jjeff wrote:
powagoat wrote:Makes sense. 300 watts of overhead it consistent with what I've heard, so when they say 3.3kw they actually mean 3.3kw going into the battery. Cool.

I think thats where the confusion lies, 3.6kw in, 3.3kw out :)
Not sure why everyone says 6.6kw for the faster Leaf as that one is 6.6kw in and probably 6.3kw out but no one ever says 6.3kw :?
Another possible explanation is with a 3.6kw leaf is it's only 3.6kw @ 240v, on commercial 208v power the same Leaf would only output 3.3kw but they'd both draw 16a max current, you just get more power if the voltage is higher. So really 2 possible explanations of why one would say 3.3kw charger but again what I don't understand is no one really says 6.3kw charger :?
Oh BTW a 6.6kw Leaf charger draws a maximum of 27.5a on either 240v or 208v and well I guess 120v if your EVSE will go that high on 120v and you have a >30a 120v circuit. The 3.6kw Leaf chargers top out at only 12a @120v no matter your circuit or EVSE potential, a significant drawback IMO.


2011 LEAF would draw more current at 208 volts (if EVSE allowed) so net was still about 3.3 kW to battery--later models are probably similar. Regarding EVSE recommendations--for the OP situation I recommend the Clipper Creek LCS-30P with 14-30 plug. This would take full advantage of the existing 30-ampere breaker and the new 4-wire receptacle would be a way to supply other 240/120-volt loads in the garage, if necessary. Since supply cords on UL Listed plug-connected EVSEs are only 12 inches overall length (including plug), it is best to determine EVSE mounting location before installing the receptacle.

Gerry
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

jjeff
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Going to run a circuit - Siemens Versicharge?

Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:08 pm

GerryAZ wrote:
jjeff wrote:
powagoat wrote:Makes sense. 300 watts of overhead it consistent with what I've heard, so when they say 3.3kw they actually mean 3.3kw going into the battery. Cool.

I think thats where the confusion lies, 3.6kw in, 3.3kw out :)
Not sure why everyone says 6.6kw for the faster Leaf as that one is 6.6kw in and probably 6.3kw out but no one ever says 6.3kw :?
Another possible explanation is with a 3.6kw leaf is it's only 3.6kw @ 240v, on commercial 208v power the same Leaf would only output 3.3kw but they'd both draw 16a max current, you just get more power if the voltage is higher. So really 2 possible explanations of why one would say 3.3kw charger but again what I don't understand is no one really says 6.3kw charger :?
Oh BTW a 6.6kw Leaf charger draws a maximum of 27.5a on either 240v or 208v and well I guess 120v if your EVSE will go that high on 120v and you have a >30a 120v circuit. The 3.6kw Leaf chargers top out at only 12a @120v no matter your circuit or EVSE potential, a significant drawback IMO.


2011 LEAF would draw more current at 208 volts (if EVSE allowed) so net was still about 3.3 kW to battery--later models are probably similar.
.....
Gerry

Interesting, my '13 Leaf draws a max of 27.5a(my 30a EVSE has an ammeter) on either 208(sometimes as low as 202v, it has a volt meter built in too) up to 240v so I get faster charging on 240v as opposed to 208v, about 15% faster. My '12 draws 16a on either 208v or 240v so again will charge a bit faster on 240v, never used an '11 though.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
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GerryAZ
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Going to run a circuit - Siemens Versicharge?

Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:47 am

jjeff wrote:Interesting, my '13 Leaf draws a max of 27.5a(my 30a EVSE has an ammeter) on either 208(sometimes as low as 202v, it has a volt meter built in too) up to 240v so I get faster charging on 240v as opposed to 208v, about 15% faster. My '12 draws 16a on either 208v or 240v so again will charge a bit faster on 240v, never used an '11 though.


I wonder if the metering in your EVSE is true RMS. My 2015 typically draws 26.4 amperes at nominal 240 volts (less if voltage is higher) and 29.8 amperes at nominal 208 volts as measured with a revenue accuracy meter connected ahead of my AeroVironment 30-ampere EVSE. I get similar readings with my Fluke true RMS clamp on ammeter. Although I don't remember exact numbers, the 2011 would draw about 16 amperes at 240 and 18 amperes at 208.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

jjeff
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Going to run a circuit - Siemens Versicharge?

Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:16 am

GerryAZ wrote:
jjeff wrote:Interesting, my '13 Leaf draws a max of 27.5a(my 30a EVSE has an ammeter) on either 208(sometimes as low as 202v, it has a volt meter built in too) up to 240v so I get faster charging on 240v as opposed to 208v, about 15% faster. My '12 draws 16a on either 208v or 240v so again will charge a bit faster on 240v, never used an '11 though.


I wonder if the metering in your EVSE is true RMS. My 2015 typically draws 26.4 amperes at nominal 240 volts (less if voltage is higher) and 29.8 amperes at nominal 208 volts as measured with a revenue accuracy meter connected ahead of my AeroVironment 30-ampere EVSE. I get similar readings with my Fluke true RMS clamp on ammeter. Although I don't remember exact numbers, the 2011 would draw about 16 amperes at 240 and 18 amperes at 208.

I do see it vary(get lower) as my car gets closer to 100% so it's not just what the EVSE is set to(which I generally leave at 30a). Unfortunately I don't have an easy way of measuring current where I use 208v but at home(240v nominal) my clamp on ammeter also reads between 27 and 28a at full charging. So to answer your question I'm not positive how the EVSE gets it current display or if it's a true ammeter, I just assumed it was.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

GlennD
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Delivery Date: 20 Jul 2013
Leaf Number: 410357
Location: Anaheim

Re: Going to run a circuit - Siemens Versicharge?

Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:49 am

GerryAZ wrote:
jjeff wrote:Interesting, my '13 Leaf draws a max of 27.5a(my 30a EVSE has an ammeter) on either 208(sometimes as low as 202v, it has a volt meter built in too) up to 240v so I get faster charging on 240v as opposed to 208v, about 15% faster. My '12 draws 16a on either 208v or 240v so again will charge a bit faster on 240v, never used an '11 though.


I wonder if the metering in your EVSE is true RMS. My 2015 typically draws 26.4 amperes at nominal 240 volts (less if voltage is higher) and 29.8 amperes at nominal 208 volts as measured with a revenue accuracy meter connected ahead of my AeroVironment 30-ampere EVSE. I get similar readings with my Fluke true RMS clamp on ammeter. Although I don't remember exact numbers, the 2011 would draw about 16 amperes at 240 and 18 amperes at 208.



I have measured Tesla , Nisson, and VW EVSE's. They all are corrected for power factor. Nearly all cheap voltmeters are peak reading and calibrated for RMS. On a sine wave that is fine and the EVSE's look like sine waves instead of the square waves a normal switching supply looks like.
2012 Cayenne Red SL traded for:
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Traded for a Cirrus White 2014 Mercedes B (totaled)
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GlennD
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Posts: 1100
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Leaf Number: 410357
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Re: Going to run a circuit - Siemens Versicharge?

Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:17 am

As long as the poster runs a dedicated 20A circuit it can easily be re-purposed into a 240V circuit by moving the nuetral and replacing the breaker and outlet. 20A is good for a 16A EVSE (80% of 20A).

On my 2013 Leaf the car's built in charger went up to 27.5A at 120V. This far exceeds the J1772 120V specification. My eGolf is the same way. It seems that the chargers only limit current. The supplied EVSE is set for 12A and the car respects that.
2012 Cayenne Red SL traded for:
2013 Pearl White SL Premium
Traded for a Cirrus White 2014 Mercedes B (totaled)
2016 Urano Gray eGolf SEL w/ drive assist

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