GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Electric car charging on the road has to be way, way better than it is today

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:53 pm

Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
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Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Electric car charging on the road has to be way, way better than it is today

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:42 pm


Only an idiot would drive an "electric car" with no DC charge port and such a tiny available battery capacity, and then complain about the public charging infrastructure!

It was the manufacturers of these nearly-worthless PHEVs that persuaded us to install all those nearly-useless public AC sites in the first place...

...A couple of weeks ago, we charged a 2018 Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid 15 times within two days.

It was part of a contest during a two-day press drive for the car—though we were beaten by the team that charged their Niro a stunning 31 times in little more than 30 hours.

But our experience reinforced what many electric car drivers either knew going in or have learned relatively quickly: Electric-car charging at public stations needs to be far better than it is today...
no condition is permanent

SageBrush
Posts: 2034
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Electric car charging on the road has to be way, way better than it is today

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:01 pm

The journalists set up a test that was bound to shine an uncomplimentary light on PHEVs, but plug-in hybrids are far from a bad idea. I use our Prius Prime for my 90 mile commute -- too long for my LEAF -- and have averaged 100 MPG over 10k miles.

AC charging at the workplace with AC charging at home makes for a very useful PHEV. Even my case of only AC charging at home has halved my petrol consumption for my work commute. And unlike my LEAF, the PHEV is good for longer trips too and will last a LOT longer.

And just to set the record straight -- the AC charger network was mostly put up for the < 100 mile range 1st generation of EVs like the LEAF.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electric car charging on the road has to be way, way better than it is today

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:16 pm

SageBrush wrote:The journalists set up a test that was bound to shine an uncomplimentary light on PHEVs, but plug-in hybrids are far from a bad idea. I use our Prius Prime for my 90 mile commute -- too long for my LEAF -- and have averaged 100 MPG over 10k miles.

AC charging at the workplace with AC charging at home makes for a very useful PHEV. Even my case of only AC charging at home has halved my petrol consumption for my work commute. And unlike my LEAF, the PHEV is good for longer trips too and will last a LOT longer.

And just to set the record straight -- the AC charger network was mostly put up for the < 100 mile range 1st generation of EVs like the LEAF.

Yup. PHEVs don't need away from home charging, it's just a nice to have, whereas for short -range BEVs (and people without at home charging), it's essential. Of course, someone without any convenient place to charge should just buy an HEV rather than a PHEV. Also, none of the points raised in the article were specific to PHEVs, they applied to all PEVs.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5011
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Electric car charging on the road has to be way, way better than it is today

Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:35 am

GRA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:...And just to set the record straight -- the AC charger network was mostly put up for the < 100 mile range 1st generation of EVs like the LEAF.

Yup. PHEVs don't need away from home charging, it's just a nice to have...

Unfortunately, the practice of giving PHEVs free charging at public L2 sites often degrades those EVSEs, making them extremely unreliable for BEVs.

Fortunately, the vehicle Kia Niro will soon be available as an actual electric vehicle, so you can pass on the Piss-poor HEV version used in the story.
no condition is permanent

SageBrush
Posts: 2034
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Electric car charging on the road has to be way, way better than it is today

Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:39 am

edatoakrun wrote:Unfortunately, the practice of giving PHEVs free charging at public L2 sites often degrades those EVSEs, making them extremely unreliable for BEVs.

Do you have something to back that assertion up with besides paranoia ?
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

User avatar
EVDRIVER
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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Electric car charging on the road has to be way, way better than it is today

Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:47 pm

SageBrush wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:Unfortunately, the practice of giving PHEVs free charging at public L2 sites often degrades those EVSEs, making them extremely unreliable for BEVs.

Do you have something to back that assertion up with besides paranoia ?



FUD

GRA
Posts: 8179
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electric car charging on the road has to be way, way better than it is today

Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:38 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:...And just to set the record straight -- the AC charger network was mostly put up for the < 100 mile range 1st generation of EVs like the LEAF.

Yup. PHEVs don't need away from home charging, it's just a nice to have...

Unfortunately, the practice of giving PHEVs free charging at public L2 sites often degrades those EVSEs, making them extremely unreliable for BEVs.

I know of very few free chargers around here for any PEVs, but if the property owners consider that a problem they can change it. At the 10 L2 EVSE Blink site nearest me, I've never seen more than 4 occupied at the same time, for the simple reason that charging there is more expensive than buying gas. But I still see both PHEVs and BEVs using it occasionally, although the BEVs are more likely to use the single co-located CHAdeMO and pay $.10/kWh more. I'm certainly in favor of making people pay for energy, but I don't see how that's an issue for BEVs specifically, beyond the fact that a charging station may not be available for them when they want to use it. Charging station hogs are just as likely to be driving BEVs as PHEVs.

edatoakrun wrote:Fortunately, the vehicle Kia Niro will soon be available as an actual electric vehicle, so you can pass on the Piss-poor HEV version used in the story.

Hey, whatever works for you or anyone else. We'll soon see how sales break down between the two versions - I fully expect the PHEV to outsell the BEV by a wide margin based on price and performance, but I could be wrong.

Edited for typos.
Last edited by GRA on Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Durandal
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Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Leaf Number: 025018
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: Electric car charging on the road has to be way, way better than it is today

Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:33 am

I stopped by the local Kia dealership about a month ago to inquire about both the Kia Soul EV, and the Niro PHEV, of which the dealership knew nothing on either one... :roll:
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf, and a Tesla Model 3 reservation expected to receive in June 2018.

rmay635703
Posts: 452
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Electric car charging on the road has to be way, way better than it is today

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:58 am

In my state there are still under 100 public charging docs (not l1 mix of paid and unpaid) enough to support charging under 100 evs statewide
and 99% of themare located in 3 cities.

For the rest of us the only public charging is 110vac outlets at Kwik trip, my work also provides 110vac for block heaters and Evs but that isn’t public.

So yes our infrastructure needs to improve.

I also think that at stores restaurants and other places you park an hour or more that a 220 volt outlet is more than adequate and should be legalized, acceptance by business would be far higher if the EVSE burden was on the vehicle owner.

The only place l3 is needed for EVs to become viable is along the highways preferably in the middle of nowhere between the cities, for me at least the single fast charger right in the city is totally worthless, what good is a fast charger that’s right next to where I live when no chargers exist along the roads I drive on?

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