GRA
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South Korea to standardize on CCS fast-charging standard used by US, German makers

Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:04 pm

Via GCR: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1114590_south-korea-to-standardize-on-ccs-fast-charging-standard-used-by-us-german-makers

CCS-1 (i.e. J1772/CCS). This seems me yet another strike against the long-term viability of CHAdeMO outside of Japan, with AFAIA only the LEAF and Soul now using it.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
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Re: South Korea to standardize on CCS fast-charging standard used by US, German makers

Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:55 pm

Looks like Outlander PHEV for US market has CHAdeMO inlet standard.

Teslas can also use CHAdeMO with a $450 adapter.

There are other non-US-market vehicles for versions with CHAdeMO inlet (e.g. Japanese market i3, e-Golf, Prius Prime).

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GRA
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Re: South Korea to standardize on CCS fast-charging standard used by US, German makers

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:17 pm

cwerdna wrote:Looks like Outlander PHEV for US market has CHAdeMO inlet standard.

Teslas can also use CHAdeMO with a $450 adapter.

There are other non-US-market vehicles for versions with CHAdeMO inlet (e.g. Japanese market i3, e-Golf, Prius Prime).

Thanks, I'd forgotten the Outlander, and consider QC on a PHEV unnecessary in any case . OTOH, the Clarity BEV is using CCS, as is the Ionic, and with the decision above it seems like the Koreans will concentrate on CCS (or do they have CHAdeMO for Japanese market models)? As for adapters, those are likely to have limited appeal IMO, certainly over the long term. Their prices are much too high, they're easy to steal, and once the charging infrastructure is built out, who'd bother?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
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Re: South Korea to standardize on CCS fast-charging standard used by US, German makers

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:39 pm

GRA wrote:... I'd forgotten the Outlander, and consider QC on a PHEV unnecessary in any case...

The choice of which DC port to equip a BEV, BEVx, or PHEV with pales in insignificance to the fatal error of selling a vehicle that has neither port.

In terms of a mobile or emergency power source, what would you rather plug into, a BEVx/PHEV with 200-400 kWh available energy storage, or a BEV with ~one tenth as much?

As PHEVs/BEVxs inevitably decline, their ability to transport large quantities of energy, and deliver it as electricity, will remain as their last advantage over BEVs.

GRA wrote:...this seems me yet another strike against the long-term viability of outside of Japan...

As long as a large fraction of the DC-capable BEVs on America's roads use CHAdeMO (and today, the majority use it) virtually all public charge stations will be equipped with CHAdeMO connectors.
no condition is permanent

GRA
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Re: South Korea to standardize on CCS fast-charging standard used by US, German makers

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:57 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:... I'd forgotten the Outlander, and consider QC on a PHEV unnecessary in any case...

The choice of which DC port to equip a BEV, BEVx, or PHEV with pales in insignificance to the fatal error of selling a vehicle that has neither port.

In terms of a mobile or emergency power source, what would you rather plug into, a BEVx/PHEV with 200-400 kWh available energy storage, or a BEV with ~one tenth as much?

Personally, if the outage is likely to be for a week or more I'd probably opt to drive somewhere that has power unless I absolutely had to stick around.

Of course, if you want to provide an inverter to run AC loads that's fine, but that doesn't require CCS or even that much power. 2kw is plenty to start and run most modern refrigerators set low, usually the biggest single power draw in a semi-emergency home situation. A few efficient lights are next to nothing, and anyone who is worried about being able to cook should opt for wood, charcoal or a portable propane/butane or white gas stove for backup if they don't have NG. Redundancy's the best emergency prep, i.e. don't be dependent on any single type of energy - I make sure any place I live has gas, so I have the option of using the microwave if the gas is out, or the stove if the power is, and then I've got my backpacking stove. I don't have to worry much about heating in my climate, but having an electric blanket in addition to the NG wall furnace (plus my 3-season and winter sleeping bags) handles that, and so on through the rest of the emergency requirements.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

RonDawg
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Re: South Korea to standardize on CCS fast-charging standard used by US, German makers

Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:54 am

GRA wrote:t seems like the Koreans will concentrate on CCS (or do they have CHAdeMO for Japanese market models)?


In my 2+ week visit to Japan in 2015, except for one Hyundai bus I didn't see any Korean-branded cars at all. I'm not sure if it's an import quota/tariff thing or if it's a a consumer perception left over from WWII. I did curiously note that in advertising, Samsung Galaxy phones had no Samsung branding on them, just "Galaxy." https://www.androidauthority.com/japans ... an-586691/

cwerdna mentioned that the Japanese-market i3 did have CHAdeMO, so if BMW is willing to do it I don't see why other otherwise-CCS manufacturers won't. I believe Teslas sold in Europe use Mennekes rather than their proprietary connector.
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Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

cmwade77
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Re: South Korea to standardize on CCS fast-charging standard used by US, German makers

Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:45 pm

GRA wrote:
cwerdna wrote:Looks like Outlander PHEV for US market has CHAdeMO inlet standard.

Teslas can also use CHAdeMO with a $450 adapter.

There are other non-US-market vehicles for versions with CHAdeMO inlet (e.g. Japanese market i3, e-Golf, Prius Prime).

Thanks, I'd forgotten the Outlander, and consider QC on a PHEV unnecessary in any case . OTOH, the Clarity BEV is using CCS, as is the Ionic, and with the decision above it seems like the Koreans will concentrate on CCS (or do they have CHAdeMO for Japanese market models)? As for adapters, those are likely to have limited appeal IMO, certainly over the long term. Their prices are much too high, they're easy to steal, and once the charging infrastructure is built out, who'd bother?

Actually, a quickcharger on a PHEV is a brilliant move on their part, seriously, most PHEVs only have 3 kw chargers, so not only can they charge at the full 6kw, but they can also use a quick charger to charge in a fraction of the time and considering their range is pretty decent, that is a good thing.

GRA
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Re: South Korea to standardize on CCS fast-charging standard used by US, German makers

Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:11 pm

cmwade77 wrote:
GRA wrote:
cwerdna wrote:Looks like Outlander PHEV for US market has CHAdeMO inlet standard.

Teslas can also use CHAdeMO with a $450 adapter.

There are other non-US-market vehicles for versions with CHAdeMO inlet (e.g. Japanese market i3, e-Golf, Prius Prime).

Thanks, I'd forgotten the Outlander, and consider QC on a PHEV unnecessary in any case . OTOH, the Clarity BEV is using CCS, as is the Ionic, and with the decision above it seems like the Koreans will concentrate on CCS (or do they have CHAdeMO for Japanese market models)? As for adapters, those are likely to have limited appeal IMO, certainly over the long term. Their prices are much too high, they're easy to steal, and once the charging infrastructure is built out, who'd bother?

Actually, a quickcharger on a PHEV is a brilliant move on their part, seriously, most PHEVs only have 3 kw chargers, so not only can they charge at the full 6kw, but they can also use a quick charger to charge in a fraction of the time and considering their range is pretty decent, that is a good thing.

I have no problem with PHEVs having faster than ~3kW L2 charging , but see no advantage for most of them having QCs, given their small battery packs and the consequent need to taper a QC charge rate almost immediately. Even with ca. 3kW charging, most PHEVs can fully charge in 2-2.5 hours, which is more than fast enough for a meal and a movie. 6kW would get that down to 1-1.5 hours, a shopping trip or dinner. Beyond that, anyone on a road trip is just going to use gas, so the extra cost of the QC doesn't make sense.

If you're talking Volt, Clarity or i3Rex QC is more justifiable, but not for the typical 20-30 mile AER PHEV.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: South Korea to standardize on CCS fast-charging standard used by US, German makers

Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:27 pm

I don't have to worry much about heating in my climate


Clearly! Heating is the biggest concern in long Winter power outages in at least half of the country.
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