SageBrush
Posts: 2805
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Electrify America Network

Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:58 am

The CCS network is improving at a snails pace and the pricing is sure to be a barrier to widespread use.
As for cars, I'm not holding my breath. E.g. the much hyped by media for hire i-Pace from Jag gets "up to 240 miles range" on the European WLTP. Anyone care to guess what that will be at normative USA driving speeds ? It *starts* at $70k and is currently outfitted with a 50 kW DC fast charging capability. The per mile consumption at travel speeds will be at least ~ 1.6x that of the Model 3, so the travel speed will equate to 32 kW DC fast charging or about 1/4 that of the Model 3.

Meh. Double Meh. Triple Meh
It ends up being a local car for the mink coat crowd.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 9273
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:19 pm

Evoforce wrote:The I-pace is lacking in charging speed, charging infrastructure, range and efficiency compared to Tesla. The other car mentioned, I do not have the facts to compare.

100kW charging for the i-Pace, at least initially. High-rate QC infrastructure is of course lacking compared to Tesla now, just as the Model S lacked high-rate charging infrastructure when it was introduced six years ago - that's what EA is going to provide. Range is down compared to the Model S85-100 or 3LR but comparable to the S/X 75D and better than the 3SR. Efficiency is undoubtedly less, surprisingly so (15kWh extra for the same range as the S/X 75D), but ride/handling are better judging by reviews, as is much of the driver interface, and it doesn't have gimmicky doors that rpevent the roof from being used for loads; in fact it's been getting rave reviews similar to those for the S when that was introduced.

The e-Tron Quattro is going to be the first vehicle that will allow 150kW CCS charging. 95kWh usable, so they claim, and again efficiency is less but range is similar to the smaller battery S/X etc.
Last edited by GRA on Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9273
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:46 pm

SageBrush wrote:The CCS network is improving at a snails pace and the pricing is sure to be a barrier to widespread use.
As for cars, I'm not holding my breath. E.g. the much hyped by media for hire i-Pace from Jag gets "up to 240 miles range" on the European WLTP. Anyone care to guess what that will be at normative USA driving speeds ? It *starts* at $70k and is currently outfitted with a 50 kW DC fast charging capability. The per mile consumption at travel speeds will be at least ~ 1.6x that of the Model 3, so the travel speed will equate to 32 kW DC fast charging or about 1/4 that of the Model 3.

Meh. Double Meh. Triple Meh
It ends up being a local car for the mink coat crowd.

The CCS network WAS improving at a snail's pace, but that's no longer the case, as EA must build the stations on time or be penalized.

Which reminds me, EA has opened the Breaux Bridge, LA QC, #10. That gives them two along I-10 east of Houston (Gulfport, MS is the other) with 5 others 'coming soon', so that's moving along nicely. Breaux Bridge is 224 miles east of Houston so maybe reachable, although there's another QC on the 'Coming soon' list (currently #15) between those two points in Sulphur, LA. (135 miles from Houston), which should eliminate any worries about not making it. Gulfport is 180 miles from B.B.

As for U.S. range, Jaguar is saying about 240 EPA (WLTP is 298; some earlier EPA estimates were 220), and one journalist managed 291 in the U.K. with constraints:
Here’s How Far The Jaguar I-Pace Can Go On Single Charge
https://insideevs.com/heres-how-far-the-jaguar-i-pace-can-go-on-single-charge/

As for being a local car for the mink coat crowd, so was the Model S when it was introduced sans any SCs. To quote Don Ameche, "Things-a change." Its range is certainly less than desirable for road trips, but then there's people like dgpcolorado who are taking long trips in degraded S60s, so the range is obviously acceptable to some (not me) given an adequate high-rate QC infrastructure.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9273
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:58 pm

palmermd wrote:
GRA wrote:There will be at least two non-Tesla BEVs this year (i-Pace and e-Tron Quattro) that will have large batteries and long range, with more to come; the only thing they lack is cheap (non-profit) charging. EA's highway network will have 4-10 QCs per site, with at least 150kW per CCS connector and some going up to 350kW (not that any current or soon to arrive [Taycan] BEV can go over 280kW).


FF91 can take it and will be available Q1 2019.

Which assumes that Faraday Future will have a real product available at some point. To date there's little reason to count on that.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

palmermd
Posts: 2502
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 1100011011
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA

Re: Electrify America Network

Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:28 pm

GRA wrote:
palmermd wrote:
GRA wrote:There will be at least two non-Tesla BEVs this year (i-Pace and e-Tron Quattro) that will have large batteries and long range, with more to come; the only thing they lack is cheap (non-profit) charging. EA's highway network will have 4-10 QCs per site, with at least 150kW per CCS connector and some going up to 350kW (not that any current or soon to arrive [Taycan] BEV can go over 280kW).


FF91 can take it and will be available Q1 2019.

Which assumes that Faraday Future will have a real product available at some point. To date there's little reason to count on that.


Don't be fooled by all the negative media surrounding evs. They are building cars as we speak.
Michael

Leaf since 31 March 2011
Driving electric since 1996


First Bar Loss
Second Bar Loss
Third Bar Loss
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GRA
Posts: 9273
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:58 pm

palmermd wrote:
GRA wrote:
palmermd wrote:
FF91 can take it and will be available Q1 2019.

Which assumes that Faraday Future will have a real product available at some point. To date there's little reason to count on that.

Don't be fooled by all the negative media surrounding evs. They are building cars as we speak.

FF's history doesn't inspire confidence. If they produce, great, but I'm not holding my breath until they're a lot closer to putting cars on sale.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 2805
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Electrify America Network

Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:13 pm

I watched a Bjorn Nyland Video driving the i-Pace on a consumption test. He was hoping that the consumption meter display in the car was wrong so he did a ~ 50 Km distance and SoC calculation instead.
Speeds between 80 - 90 KPH (50 - 56 MPH),

45 kW charging before test to bring SoC up to 75%
210 miles range
Somewhere in the range of 370 - 390 Wh/mile consumption.
Roads were damp (but no rain) ~ 50% of the test

As Bjorn says, fingers are crossed that Jag has some software magic in the pipeline because its current state is pitiful.
For comparison, I drove my Model 3 LR this morning ~ 265 miles at ~ 106 KPH (65 MPH) most of the way at 206 Wh/mile overall, zero net elevation change and without Aero wheel covers. No charging stop needed. Yet another "Tesla Killer" that is anything but.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8MqUL2YF2w
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2805
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:35 am

palmermd wrote:
GRA wrote:
palmermd wrote:
FF91 can take it and will be available Q1 2019.

Which assumes that Faraday Future will have a real product available at some point. To date there's little reason to count on that.


Don't be fooled by all the negative media surrounding evs. They are building cars as we speak.

As of 8/28/2018 FF has finished building ONE pre-production car.

One car. Entirely hand assembled -- watch the video. The 'assembly line' is 5 people carrying parts to a chassis on a dolly in an empty warehouse. From that to mass production in Q1 2019 is a joke. The only way I see FF not dying on the vine is to be bought by a legacy. I presume that is their business case all along since nothing else makes sense.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 9273
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:12 pm

#11 is open in Ooltewah, TN, another Walmart Supercenter at the junction of I-75 and U.S. 64.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9273
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:56 pm

EA has seemingly revised their numbers, having snuck Colby, KS in at #10, which makes Breaux Bridge, LA #11 and Ooltewah, TN #12. Like Huntington, OR, Colby is out all by its lonesome for now, although Hays and Topeka, KS are on the 'coming soon' list.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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