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EVDRIVER
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Tue May 29, 2018 12:52 pm

Doing a 14-50 outlet is as simple as it gets. Don't make the mistake or assumption others make. If you want to know what is going to get approved then call your local inspector a the building dept. I have been on dozens of inspections that are rejected based on assumption and inexperienced electricians.


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techiefan
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Tue May 29, 2018 1:14 pm

MikeD wrote:techiefan: Thanks for your last useful response! One quibble I have, however, is that I found the 1-gang PVC Carlon E980EFN FSE Box (19 CU in) not only adequate by 2017 NEC box fill standards (3 x 5 cu in < 19 cu in [vs 32 CU in for a similar 2-gang box]), but preferred because this box provides for a total of 6 receptacle mounting points instead of the 2-gang box's only 4 mounting points. I note also the 1-gang box is deeper than the 2-gang box, which might be important depending on which manufacturer's 14-50R receptacle you decide to buy.

I grant you, however, that the significant difficulty in working with the very stiff 6 AWG wire might cause one to prefer the 2-gang over the 1-gang box!

It might be useful to have posted detailed pictures of good 14-50R installs for the DIYers. Anyone?...


As far as I know the 1-gang PVC Carlon E980EFN FSE Box would be for exterior wall mounting with the use of PVC as needed for exposed wiring in a garage, but they do make a deeper 1 gang box "old work" that probably would work. In the past I have always come across a 2 gang box for a 14-50R but a far as I know it's not a code thing, just having enough room inside is etc.

Getting the 14-50R into place is a pain so have the extra room is nice.

I took pictures but can't post them here and don't want to host them but really there is not much to see. The entire install is fairly basic just with stiffer wire and a larger receptacle using 240v (two hots instead of one).

Hardest part for most would be getting from the panel to the location of desire. I say this because getting wires in walls from point A to point B can by for many a daunting task and add 6 AWG to the mix. It gets more complicated when ones panel is recessed with sheetrock all around it as you have to very carefully cut some out for access. In my case my panel was located in my basement which was fully exposed and my basement has drill (hole) access from below up into a wall cavity in the garage. So the entire job took about 2 hours and cost about $80. When I add the GFCI breaker the total cost will be around $160. 50 AMP GFCI breakers are expensive, but swapping it out should take about 30 min.

Thanks for the feedback too!

wwhitney
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Tue May 29, 2018 1:53 pm

techiefan wrote:One note is that you have to use a 2 gang box with 6 AWG wire due to size and needing for the additional space to accommodate it.


MikeD wrote:the 1-gang PVC Carlon E980EFN FSE Box (19 CU in) is [. . .] adequate by 2017 NEC box fill standards (3 x 5 cu in < 19 cu in [vs 32 CU in for a similar 2-gang box]),


#6 conductors have a volume requirement of 5 in^3 each, and #10 conductors (the minimum size EGC) have a volume allowance of 2.5 in^3 each. Plus a device mounted to a box has a requirement of twice the largest size conductor connected to the device.

So the minimum box volume for a 14-50 receptacle fed with #6 L, L, N and #10 EGC would be 5 * 5.0 in^3 + 2.5 in^3 = 27.5 in^3.

Cheers, Wayne

techiefan
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Tue May 29, 2018 4:56 pm

wwhitney wrote:
techiefan wrote:One note is that you have to use a 2 gang box with 6 AWG wire due to size and needing for the additional space to accommodate it.


#6 conductors have a volume requirement of 5 in^3 each, and #10 conductors (the minimum size EGC) have a volume allowance of 2.5 in^3 each. Plus a device mounted to a box has a requirement of twice the largest size conductor connected to the device.

So the minimum box volume for a 14-50 receptacle fed with #6 L, L, N and #10 EGC would be 5 * 5.0 in^3 + 2.5 in^3 = 27.5 in^3.

Cheers, Wayne


Wayne,

Unless I am missing something it's 5.0 in^3 per lead with 3 leads = 15 + 2.5 for Ground (#10) = 17.5?

The double gang box is 25 cu

https://www.constructionmonkey.com/calc ... al/boxfill

MikeD
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Tue May 29, 2018 5:17 pm

wwhitney: Your calculation appears correct, as usual, so thank you for your input!

It is the case that my actually wiring such a Carlon 1-gang FSE box (using 6/2 AWG cable) for a temporary test outlet was without much trouble space wise (probably because the conductors went straight into the receptacle from the 3/4" inlet with a distance less than about 2 inches).

I am trying to come up with at least one easy wiring solution to recommend to other people after encountering a number of difficulties myself involving component parts not easily coming together -- which I found quite surprising. For example, I quickly noticed that because of the reduced depth in a Carlon 2-gang FSE boxes (about 1.75 in) from a Carlon 1-gang FSE (about 3/8 in difference), some common and perhaps desirable 14-50R receptacles [the top of the line Hubbell HBL9450A and, before a recent redesign, the Leviton 279] would not physically fit in that shallower 2-gang box -- too tall! Another is an orientation problem: most flush mount 14-50R receptacles seemed to be designed with a preference to the wiring coming into the box from the neutral connection direction, whereas because you are required by this EVSE to have the ground pin mounted at the top, and assuming your wiring is coming from conduit down from above, it would be most convenient to have the receptacle designed with a preference to the wiring coming into the box from the ground connection direction [which BTW is how all the floor mount 14-50R receptacles that I looked at are designed -- but they seem inappropriate to use]. Then there is the problem of finding even a plain non-metallic box cover! The 2-gang box does not have desirable center mounting, whereas the 1-gang box does. No weather proof non-metallic cover seems to come close to closing well over the EVSE's plug.

The bottom line so far as to what recommendations I would make is incomplete at this point. I can write that the redesigned Leviton 279 14-50R can be identified by the distance from the mounting plate to its bottom being only 1 inch whereas the previous design was about 1.85 in, so in this regard it appears to be the easiest to mount of all the commonly available 14-50R receptacles I looked at. Also, unlike the other designs, the wiring comes up from the bottom of the receptacle instead of a side before being secured. BTW some of the other similar 30 or 50a receptacles in local stores seem to be a mixture of the old and new design -- does this mean they are still in transition between the old and new design? The part number seems not to have changed, so it's no help!

I welcome any specific recommendations/guidance you may have, wwhitney.

techiefan
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Tue May 29, 2018 5:57 pm

MikeD wrote:wwhitney: Your calculation appears correct, as usual, so thank you for your input!

Then there is the problem of finding even a plain non-metallic box cover! The 2-gang box does not have desirable center mounting, whereas the 1-gang box does. No weather proof non-metallic cover seems to come close to closing well over the EVSE's plug.



I am fairly sure the metal plate is for ARC protection (reason it's also grounded) and required in the USA I think but since I used metal I didn't research it or care much about it like you (different projects). If the silver color is an issue they make the metal covers in all colors for folks who like their laundry rooms to looks nicer or garages in this case.

I do believe his math is off and commented above yours as I come up with 17.5 cubic inches for 3 #6 and 1 #10. #6 needs 5.0 each and #10 is 2.5 etc. Would like to see his comment on this just to make sure I am not going crazy.

I had ordered the new design on the 14-15R just to note (it's a new style / design, same part #) and not to be confused with the older outdated 6-50R.
Last edited by techiefan on Tue May 29, 2018 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wwhitney
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Tue May 29, 2018 6:01 pm

techiefan wrote:Unless I am missing something it's 5.0 in^3 per lead with 3 leads = 15 + 2.5 for Ground (#10) = 17.5?

NEC 314.16(B)(4) wrote:Device or Equipment Fill. For each yoke or strap containing one or more devices or equipment, a double volume allowance in accordance with Table 314.16(B) shall be made for each yoke or strap based on the largest conductor connected to a device(s) or equipment supported by that yoke or strap. A device or utilization equipment wider than a single 50 mm (2 in.) device box as described in Table 314.16(A) shall have double volume allowances provided for each gang required for mounting

I forget if a 14-50 receptacle takes up just one gang or two gangs. If one, my previous computation of 27.5 in^3 is correct for wiring with #6 AWG conductors; if two, the answer is 37.5 in^3.

If this is an outdoor application, wouldn't using something like this be simpler:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-50-Amp-T ... /100193650

Cheers, Wayne

MikeD
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Tue May 29, 2018 8:03 pm

wwhitney: Thanks for your quick response! All of the flush mount 14-50R receptacles that I have seen physically will fit in a typical 1-gang box, if that is what you are asking.

Your response for an actual outside installation seems reasonable since the metallic construction is perhaps less an issue since standing (grounded) water might be around it at times, and it appears it might do a good job covering the EVSE's special power cord even while locked (lockable a definite plus) -- but it would be good for someone to verify that. On the other hand don't most if not all direct wired outdoors rated home EVSEs currently sold have non-metallic exteriors?

For indoor use I think a "no ground within reach of the receptacle" approach/solution would be preferable. Is there a non-metallic version of your linked outlet (I have looked before unsuccessfully)?

I should probably reiterate for casual readers the safety importance of using a GFCI breaker even if a ground is not near the receptacle -- spilled water can always occur.

MikeD
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Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:14 am
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Tue May 29, 2018 8:44 pm

techiefan: About a possible requirement for a metal cover -- there are multiple weatherproof non-metallic covers that provide for 14-30/14-50R receptacles -- and they don't appear to be made out of strong plastic either -- so I am still mystified since again it seems safer if one can avoid having a ground near this type receptacle (i.e. especially because how difficult it can be to plugin/unplug).

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