GlennD
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Tue May 22, 2018 2:55 pm

davewill wrote:
GlennD wrote:It would be possible to build a 277v EVSE if you could find the components. Most cars will accept 277V but power supplies and contactors stop at 240V. ...

As far as I know, only the Tesla Model S and X (and maybe the Mercedes and RAV4 with Tesla chargers) will accept 277v. Even the new model 3 doesn't support it, much to the chagrin of a few folks who actually tried one of the handful of 277v Tesla sites.


I am told that the B and RAV4EV will accept 277 but I have no way to test it. For me 240VAC is fine and it is fast enough.
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tranquilgarden
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Thu May 24, 2018 10:27 am

alozzy wrote:It's the same receptacle he would wire for an electric range/oven - NEMA 14-50R


We have ordered our 2018 Leaf and hope to get it in August. Excited and looking forward to it. Really want a Tesla but can't yet afford it. :|

We have our electrician coming on Monday morning to give us a quote to put in a new subpanel in the garage (need it for my woodworking tools, otherwise I would have just had him pull one line for the charging). We're thinking of just going with the 14-50 plug rather than spending the extra $1000+ for the flo charging station. Maybe we'll get one later for the convenience.

However we also want the flexibility of plugging into a dryer outlet when we are on the road visiting friends. Usually dryers are located in garages or basements and within reach of the 20ft charging cable, not so much stoves. Are there adapters available for this or do they come with the Leaf? Our salesperson didn't mention so.
2018 Nissan Leaf SV, Deep Blue Pearl - on order
2018 Tesla Model S 75D, Deep Blue Metallic, Sunroof, 19" Silver Wheels, Cream Premium Interior, AP, PUP - on the wish list

tranquilgarden
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Thu May 24, 2018 10:45 am

tranquilgarden wrote:
alozzy wrote:It's the same receptacle he would wire for an electric range/oven - NEMA 14-50R


We have ordered our 2018 Leaf and hope to get it in August. Excited and looking forward to it. Really want a Tesla but can't yet afford it. :|

We have our electrician coming on Monday morning to give us a quote to put in a new subpanel in the garage (need it for my woodworking tools, otherwise I would have just had him pull one line for the charging). We're thinking of just going with the 14-50 plug rather than spending the extra $1000+ for the flo charging station. Maybe we'll get one later for the convenience.

However we also want the flexibility of plugging into a dryer outlet when we are on the road visiting friends. Usually dryers are located in garages or basements and within reach of the 20ft charging cable, not so much stoves. Are there adapters available for this or do they come with the Leaf? Our salesperson didn't mention so.


Found some other posts that answer this question, I believe. viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25846
2018 Nissan Leaf SV, Deep Blue Pearl - on order
2018 Tesla Model S 75D, Deep Blue Metallic, Sunroof, 19" Silver Wheels, Cream Premium Interior, AP, PUP - on the wish list

alozzy
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Thu May 24, 2018 2:27 pm

@tranquilgarden Yup, short version is don't use the stock EVSE on a dryer outlet (NEMA 14-30R) because your LEAF's OBC will draw 27.5 A, which is too high for continuous use on a 30A circuit. If you want to use a dryer outlet elsewhere, then you would need a portable EVSE that can be set to a lower amperage draw. An example is the Zencar 32A portable EVSE, which you could order with one of the amperage values preset to 24A.
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techiefan
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Mon May 28, 2018 7:01 am

Simple question as I see it but lots of folks comment on everything but the question. Sure hire a electrician, but that's not what the OP asked about.

Here is what I picked up for the job (My panel is < 25 FT away)

(1) Cerrowire 147-4203A 25-Feet 6/3 NM-B Stranded with Ground Wire, Black
(1) 2 Gang Outlet Box - Carlon B225R-UPC Switch/Outlet Box (your box will be different if you are not flush mounting etc, so adjust according to job) If not behind a wall conduit would be required etc. Outlet height from ground should conform to local build codes etc.
(1) 3/4-Inch Clamp Type Connector (For Panel)
(1) 50 AMP Breaker (Check with town to see if they require GFCI for garage use) - Most towns / city require GFCI for any outlet in a garage
(1) Pack of 3/4 or 1/2 braces or NM staple type if running across an area where you need to secure the wire like a basement rafter etc.
(1) Metal NEMA 14-50 Cover plate
(1) NEMA 14-50R outlet
(1) Permit if required or desired to be compliant with town / city rules

In my case my panel already has a 40 AMP breaker which was for an stove top which was not in use (its Gas), so I reused that breaker, should I need to draw more later down the road I will upgrade it to 50 AMPs. I know that the OEM draws no more than 30 amps and a 40 amp breaker is sufficient for this purpose. Note it's okay to have a smaller breaker with greater capacity wire, just not the other way around. It's not GFCI but should I need upgrade later such as new charing requirements I will use a 50 AMP GFCI enabled breaker for safety and to conform with my building local codes.

An electrician should be used if you never have worked in a panel, added an outlet or done any real wiring, I don't suggest this project be ones first electrical experience as the complexity is greater and less is documented around it. It's not a difficult project just requires to be done right for safety sake. It's not common to have a 14-50R in the garage or a spare laying around as not much calls for it in a garage. EVSE charing and wiring up is a less documented area then lets say adding an outlet behind a TV in a bedroom. This is also why many electricians are less familiar with any additional code or terminology. So asking for a dryer range outlet (NEMA 14-50R) in the garage for charging ones car will yield a quicker understanding of what one needs to be quoted on. Most electricians charge $200 per outlet these days plus parts, parts are about $100 and up depending on distance from panel (more copper more $). Also note try to keep the run short as possible which I am not going to go into here other than distance = resistance etc. For what the EVSE currently draws which is 27.5 AMPS distance is less of a concern but just wanted to point this out.

Just wanted to provide some information, but don't take my word for it, consult with others, read around and or call the town if needed. You can also get quotes from different electricians and ask how they plan to do the job, while I don't advocate wasting anyones time it's another way to get information from the "pros".

Does this help anyone?
Last edited by techiefan on Tue May 29, 2018 4:02 am, edited 3 times in total.

MikeD
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Mon May 28, 2018 7:40 am

techiefan: Two brief(?) comments:

1) The length of the 2018 Nissan EVSE is 18 feet, so I suggest that one CAREFULLY choose the location of the outlet -- take into account where the Leaf's charging port might be. In my case since I most often charge with the car just outside the garage but also might charge with the car inside (at times facing its door, but also sometimes facing away) and also there is a doorway just inside the garage doorway to a side room that I don't want the charging cord to cross lest I create a tripping hazard for myself, the location of an outlet could only vary by 3 feet.

2) I think it is safest to have the outlet beyond a reaching distance away from any ground if at all possible, so that one can't be touching a ground with one hand while the other hand is accidentally touching an energized 120v prong of the plug in the outlet while plugging/unplugging. So I quibble against the need for a METAL cover plate (which code requires be grounded, I believe). If removing nearby grounds is not possible, all the better reason for safety reasons (regardless of the minimum code requirements!) to install a 50a GFCI breaker NOW (of course assuming 6 AWG wire). (Having written this, I also recognize the difficulty of finding a simple non-metallic 14-50 cover -- any suggestions besides a DIY job from a plain full cover?)

techiefan
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Mon May 28, 2018 10:13 am

MikeD wrote:techiefan: Two brief(?) comments:

1) The length of the 2018 Nissan EVSE is 18 feet, so I suggest that one CAREFULLY choose the location of the outlet -- take into account where the Leaf's charging port might be. In my case since I most often charge with the car just outside the garage but also might charge with the car inside (at times facing its door, but also sometimes facing away) and also there is a doorway just inside the garage doorway to a side room that I don't want the charging cord to cross lest I create a tripping hazard for myself, the location of an outlet could only vary by 3 feet.

2) I think it is safest to have the outlet beyond a reaching distance away from any ground if at all possible, so that one can't be touching a ground with one hand while the other hand is accidentally touching an energized 120v prong of the plug in the outlet while plugging/unplugging. So I quibble against the need for a METAL cover plate (which code requires be grounded, I believe). If removing nearby grounds is not possible, all the better reason for safety reasons (regardless of the minimum code requirements!) to install a 50a GFCI breaker NOW (of course assuming 6 AWG wire). (Having written this, I also recognize the difficulty of finding a simple non-metallic 14-50 cover -- any suggestions besides a DIY job from a plain full cover?)


I agree on the first point, you want to place it in the right spot but I guess that's almost a given but good to call it out.

Second point, in my case I used 6 AWG, but left the 40 AMP breaker for now and will actually order the 50 AMP GFCI shorty for GFCI safety sake. Should something draw over 40 (EVSE is rated at 27.5) now the breaker will trip anyway so no immediate hazard. The cover is actually ground by the Levition 14-50R just to note. The 6/3 I purchased and most off the shelf has the 4 wire which is ground, the 14-50R takes ground direct or looped if you are using a metal box. The metal cover has metal screws and the metal frame of the Levition is grounded as well. This is far as I know, I always suggest folks do their own local city / town homework if doubt as I am not licensed just been doing this a long time and try to keep up to date etc.

MikeD
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Mon May 28, 2018 12:14 pm

techiefan: Your response to me seems accurate and useful, thank you! Since you mentioned using a non-metallic box for your receptacle it occurred to me that your installation could be improved safety-wise (especially for the period without a GFCI breaker), assuming the only part of the receptacle's installation that was touchable AND grounded was the metal cover, if you could replace that cover that a non-metallic one. The trouble is I haven't been able to find one(!?), either for a 1-gang or 2-gang box -- but I could create one by cutting a 2 in hole in a plain non-metallic cover (like Hubbell/Bell PBC100GY). I commend you for your original post's thoroughness and usefulness, BTW!

Because a good 14-50R receptacle makes a tight fit with the plug, it can be very hard to unplug without using two hands -- one pushing on the cover and the other pulling on the plug. If you only pull on the plug, I can see where a plastic cover might break (crack at the 4 holes) if it is only secured by the 4 screws that pass through the cover (and not the two additional screws that may be available at top/bottom center that do not pass through the cover). Perhaps this accounts for only metal covers being available for use with 30 and 50a receptacles...

techiefan
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Tue May 29, 2018 5:56 am

MikeD wrote:techiefan: Your response to me seems accurate and useful, thank you! Since you mentioned using a non-metallic box for your receptacle it occurred to me that your installation could be improved safety-wise (especially for the period without a GFCI breaker), assuming the only part of the receptacle's installation that was touchable AND grounded was the metal cover, if you could replace that cover that a non-metallic one. The trouble is I haven't been able to find one(!?), either for a 1-gang or 2-gang box -- but I could create one by cutting a 2 in hole in a plain non-metallic cover (like Hubbell/Bell PBC100GY). I commend you for your original post's thoroughness and usefulness, BTW!

Because a good 14-50R receptacle makes a tight fit with the plug, it can be very hard to unplug without using two hands -- one pushing on the cover and the other pulling on the plug. If you only pull on the plug, I can see where a plastic cover might break (crack at the 4 holes) if it is only secured by the 4 screws that pass through the cover (and not the two additional screws that may be available at top/bottom center that do not pass through the cover). Perhaps this accounts for only metal covers being available for use with 30 and 50a receptacles...

I used a plastic box and actually mounted it next to the stud with adding a screw from the side to secure it beyond the plastic tabs so it can't be yanked out. However the metal plate is grounded because the outlet metal frame is grounded by design and when attached with the 4 metal screws it makes bond. If I used a metal box the only difference would be the metal box would need to be grounded as well, wouldn't change anything safety wise. Really GFCI and safety in the way I am using my EVSE charger is not much of a concern for me as I am in full control but since we are posting on an open we should always call out things to ensure others are safe.

One note is that you have to use a 2 gang box with 6 AWG wire due to size and needing for the additional space to accommodate it.

In Canda they readily sell the plastic covers as all in one but I suspect they are not approved for USA use.

Hope these posts help others and again I say make sure to follow all NEC codes and if one has any questions call the town / city with concerns or questions on current code. Sometimes going into the local office and talking with the local inspector will yield better results, they usually don't discriminate against non licensed electricians asking questions. Garage car charging (EVSE) is a fairly new area anyway, it's not something that's been around that long. Also remember that when you open a permit, it's inspected prior to passing, if you haven't followed code you will need to fix it in order to pass, the inspector will tell you what needs to be done to be compliant. Now many homeowners often don't open permits for small work like an outlet but those are the rules in many areas, if one chooses to follow or not is up the individual like speeding.

In case anyone wants to read the NEC 625 rules for EVCS

http://www.electricallicenserenewal.com ... onID=366.0

Happy EVSE charging to all!

MikeD
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Re: 2018 Nissan portable EVSE manual/wiring instructions

Tue May 29, 2018 11:27 am

techiefan: Thanks for your last useful response! One quibble I have, however, is that I found the 1-gang PVC Carlon E980EFN FSE Box (19 CU in) not only adequate by 2017 NEC box fill standards (3 x 5 cu in < 19 cu in [vs 32 CU in for a similar 2-gang box]), but preferred because this box provides for a total of 6 receptacle mounting points instead of the 2-gang box's only 4 mounting points. I note also the 1-gang box is deeper than the 2-gang box, which might be important depending on which manufacturer's 14-50R receptacle you decide to buy.

I grant you, however, that the significant difficulty in working with the very stiff 6 AWG wire might cause one to prefer the 2-gang over the 1-gang box!

It might be useful to have posted detailed pictures of good 14-50R installs for the DIYers. Anyone?...

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