No Garage, Can I Still Install a Plug In L2 Charging Station?

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kuroneko

Active member
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
40
Location
Somerset County, NJ
I hate to create a possible duplicate thread, but I can't find one that answers ALL of my questions together. Feel free to point me to other threads that cover some of this.

I currently rent the second floor of a two family house. There are no garages, just strips of pavement on either side of the house. There are also no outlets outside to even attempt to trickle charge my 2013 Leaf. I did find an old unused two pole 20/20 breaker connected to an outlet that was used for A/C back in the day in my kitchen.
My questions are:
1: Can I use that outlet to connect an L2 charger? I am aware that it would cost money to move/rewire. I'm hoping that in the process of moving said outlet that I'll be able to fix any issues due to the age of the breaker and wiring.
2: Can I have an L2 charger outside that isn't directly hardwired to the house? As in, can it just be plugged into said outlet if it has proper protection, but not a whole garage? Like maybe a tiny shed to shield it from the elements? I would like to take the charger with me when I move (probably in a few years, not months), and not leave my very kind landlords with this strange thing attached to their house that they can't use. Unless I can convince them to get an electric car too, but that's probably not going to happen.

If not, I can still charge an the Nissan up the road from my home. It isn't that much of an issue to make the stop since they are close enough, but I like the idea of charging at home so I don't have to factor in a trip whenever I want to drive more than my usual commute. I am pushing to get a charging station installed in the town I work for which is the county seat and should be doing things like this. The county is buying electric cars for part of their fleet, but I'm not sure how many charging stations they are going to put in. They will be open to the public at least, but I'm not sure when they will be built or how it will work once they're up and running.

Thanks in advance.
 
Just be aware the EVSE needs to be 16 amps max. I would make up an extension cord (#12 wire) if the distance was 100' or less and just plug in. Just do not create a trip hazard.

Not sure I would spend much on a rental situation.
 
smkettner said:
Just be aware the EVSE needs to be 16 amps max. I would make up an extension cord (#12 wire) if the distance was 100' or less and just plug in. Just do not create a trip hazard.

Not sure I would spend much on a rental situation.

I spending on a rental isn't the greatest idea. I've lived here for seven years and have great landlords that don't up the rent every single year.
I wanted give people all in the information as to why I can't just create a permanent setup for my Leaf. I know my landlords have an electrician in the family so the overall cost of modifying the electric shouldn't be outrageous. I do know the whole setup isn't cheap, but I'm trying to figure out if it's even possible. Option 2 is probably just splitting the cost of putting outdoor GFCI outlets outside if the panel downstairs can handle it for trickle charging. I do a huge Halloween display and they do lights for Christmas so it isn't like they'd put it in and never use it. I'm probably going to talk to them within the next few days about the whole thing.
 
I would think you could use a plug-in unit as long as the receptacle is protected by a weather-rated enclosure. But personally I'm no expert and I'd probably end up consulting a qualified electrician regarding local electric code.

Also, consider that removal of a hard-wired EVSE is fairly trivial when the time comes. All you'd be leaving behind is the junction box.
 
Start from the breaker box and ask yourself where the most proximate parking spot for the LEAF would be. In my case it only took a 15 feet run on the outside of the house to a new outdoors rated outlet. So long as you have room in the breaker box the install cost is usually not outrageous ... unless you have to cross the house with a wire.
 
So I ended up going with plan B. I'm having my landlord install a regular outlet on the side of the house so I can trickle charge. Unfortunately the main box for the house is on the opposite end of the house so they have to run wire all the way across to reach the side my driveway is on. The box for my apartment is actually in a closet on the second floor in the middle of the house so that's kind of difficult. We agreed that it would just be too much to run that type electrical for a single use. At least with the general outlet they can use it for other things like Christmas lights and hedge trimmers and whatnot.
I am hoping I am home when this guy shows up for the estimate. I just want to make sure this thing ends up in the right spot. I kind of hope to get an estimate for the correct outlet for an L2. If it's not too much, I might be able to talk my landlords into putting it in. However, this is just a rental so I don't have a lot of say and I shouldn't put too much of my own money into it (we'd likely be splitting the cost on that option).
 
I need one of the electrical-savvy people here to confirm this, but I think they can run a 20 amp (12 gauge) cable with three wires plus ground instead of two, thus allowing 120 volt outlets along the run, using one of the two Hot wires, and a 240 volt 20A outlet at the end, outside the house, for a 16 amp EVSE. The main issue would be possibly overloading the circuit while your car was charging (which could be minimized by charging after midnight).
 
L2 is 240 volts. Regular outlet is 120 volts (L1)

I would try for pulling a 20 amp 240v split phase circuit with 2 hot, neutral and ground. Install a 240v outlet and a 5-20 duplux with an outlet on each hot to share with other stuff. May need to be GFCI so that may complicate things or more expensive GFCI breaker.
 
smkettner said:
L2 is 240 volts. Regular outlet is 120 volts (L1)

I would try for pulling a 20 amp 240v split phase circuit with 2 hot, neutral and ground. Install a 240v outlet and a 5-20 duplux with an outlet on each hot to share with other stuff. May need to be GFCI so that may complicate things or more expensive GFCI breaker.

Isn't that what I suggested, albeit with less detail?
 
LeftieBiker said:
smkettner said:
L2 is 240 volts. Regular outlet is 120 volts (L1)

I would try for pulling a 20 amp 240v split phase circuit with 2 hot, neutral and ground. Install a 240v outlet and a 5-20 duplux with an outlet on each hot to share with other stuff. May need to be GFCI so that may complicate things or more expensive GFCI breaker.

Isn't that what I suggested, albeit with less detail?

More than likely this outlet would have its own breaker, but this is the reason why I want to be there when the guy shows up. It will have to be GFCI since it is outside and that is the code the around here. I don't want this to get too expensive as I said before this is just a rental. Any charging available at home is better than no charging. The house is over 70 years old and the wiring is kind of questionable as it is right now. A fresh run of wire with its own breaker is my safest option.
 
kuroneko said:
It will have to be GFCI since it is outside and that is the code the around here.

You have to have GFCI protection on a 240V circuit in your area? Or just 120V? Because that may invoke some cost savings buy not needing to purchase a GFCI breaker($100+)
 
HerdingElectrons said:
kuroneko said:
It will have to be GFCI since it is outside and that is the code the around here.

You have to have GFCI protection on a 240V circuit in your area? Or just 120V? Because that may invoke some cost savings buy not needing to purchase a GFCI breaker($100+)

Not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure all outdoor outlets are supposed to be GFCI. I don't have a garage or anything unfortunately.
 
That may be the best plan, although it's a bit of a shame since a 240v 20a circuit would pretty much triple your effective charging rate.

Here's what I would ask to do in your shoes. Install a 20a 240v circuit and use a box like this at the end:

https://www.amazon.com/Siemens-TL137US-Temporary-Receptacle-Installed/dp/B00A8FQUYW/ref=pd_sim_b2b_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00A8FQUYW&pd_rd_r=16068a1a-e774-11e8-8598-21ee8bbcbdaa&pd_rd_w=PYe96&pd_rd_wg=jrjhq&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=0b6f8745-66e2-4766-8b44-154b13ee4892&pf_rd_r=7QXV4ZSDWFSFNNR3679C&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=7QXV4ZSDWFSFNNR3679C

That gives you your 240v charging circuit AND regular plugs all from the same wires (you run 4 wires instead of 3) you were going to run anyway. If you can manage a bigger circuit, that would be great, but 240v 20a will do the job. Offer to pay for the box and they might go for it.
 
I would also like to add, that a 240v outlet would be a good upgrade for the landlord. The future is EV! If you are a happy renter, bonus. If you move some time in the future, landlord still has the ability to offer charging for EV's.
 
The reason I suggested the configuration I did is that it uses smaller gauge, easy to pull cable, and gives you both 120 and 240 volt outlets. It shouldn't cost a lot unless the landlord wants a bunch of 120 volt outlets, instead of just one or two of them.
 
kuroneko said:
LeftieBiker said:
smkettner said:
L2 is 240 volts. Regular outlet is 120 volts (L1)

I would try for pulling a 20 amp 240v split phase circuit with 2 hot, neutral and ground. Install a 240v outlet and a 5-20 duplux with an outlet on each hot to share with other stuff. May need to be GFCI so that may complicate things or more expensive GFCI breaker.

Isn't that what I suggested, albeit with less detail?

More than likely this outlet would have its own breaker, but this is the reason why I want to be there when the guy shows up. It will have to be GFCI since it is outside and that is the code the around here. I don't want this to get too expensive as I said before this is just a rental. Any charging available at home is better than no charging. The house is over 70 years old and the wiring is kind of questionable as it is right now. A fresh run of wire with its own breaker is my safest option.


It might trip a standard 5MA GFCI. The built in GFCI trips at 20ma . I know L1 OpenEVSEs used to trip L1 GFCI's until the reference resistors were changed to 47K from 22K. 22K is the mfg recommended value but I do not think that they considered GFCI;s.. 22K is about 51/2 ma at 120VAC
 
OP, a suggestion: If the landlord is willing to run new cable to install a regular outlet near where you park, you can actually use it as 240v while you live there, then easily convert it to a regular 120V outlet when you move out. Here's how- the wire isn't any different for a 240v/20A circuit than it is for a 120V/20A circuit. The only limitation is that it could only be one outlet, but it sounds like that's the plan anyway. Run the wire and install a 2-pole 20A breaker in the load center and a NEMA 6-20 outlet for the receptacle. You can buy a variety of EVSEs that plug into that with or without an adapter. Then, when it's time to move, you can just replace the 2-pole breaker with a 1-pole one and the 6-20 outlet with a 5-20 GFCI outlet, and they'll have a regular 120v circuit there.
 
nedfunnell said:
OP, a suggestion: If the landlord is willing to run new cable to install a regular outlet near where you park, you can actually use it as 240v while you live there, then easily convert it to a regular 120V outlet when you move out.
Why would you do that? A 240V outlet is more valuable. If it's a proper 4-wire outlet (two hots, neutral and ground -- not like a 6-20), you can get 120V from it with a simple adapter, if you need to -- no need to cripple the outlet.
 
The current version of the OpenEVSE uses a 300K sense resistor vs the old 47K. It should not disturb any GFCI. 47K is under most GFCI devices but 300K is minuscule.
 
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