RustyShackleford
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:37 am

lorenfb wrote:
SalisburySam wrote:L3 charging stations and the larger port on your vehicle are all direct current and the conversion device in the car is bypassed so the juice is going directly to the battery. Now the amperage/voltage limitation is at the charging station primarily vs. the car in the other scenario.



The vehicle's BMS does the primary control of the charging current.

You're both right. The charging station limits the charging current, but the car determines what it actually is, subject to that limit.

SalisburySam wrote:Lastly the L2/L1 charging stations are all single phase, likely how your home is wired.


Most all homes are wired for two phase (~ 220V for some applications), and that provides the ability to develop the higher L2 charging power.

Nope, the wiring of most houses is single-phase, or split phase. It's confusing because there are two lines that are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. From wiki "The two 120 V AC lines are supplied to the premises from a transformer with a 240 V AC secondary winding which has a center tap connected to ground. This results in two 120 V AC line voltages which are out of phase by 180 degrees with each other. The system neutral conductor is connected to ground at the transformer center tap. 240 V AC can be obtained by connecting the load between the two 120 V AC lines."

lorenfb
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:51 am

RustyShackleford wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
SalisburySam wrote:L3 charging stations and the larger port on your vehicle are all direct current and the conversion device in the car is bypassed so the juice is going directly to the battery. Now the amperage/voltage limitation is at the charging station primarily vs. the car in the other scenario.



The vehicle's BMS does the primary control of the charging current.

You're both right. The charging station limits the charging current, but the car determines what it actually is, subject to that limit.

SalisburySam wrote:Lastly the L2/L1 charging stations are all single phase, likely how your home is wired.


Most all homes are wired for two phase (~ 220V for some applications), and that provides the ability to develop the higher L2 charging power.

Nope, the wiring of most houses is single-phase, or split phase. It's confusing because there are two lines that are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. From wiki "The two 120 V AC lines are supplied to the premises from a transformer with a 240 V AC secondary winding which has a center tap connected to ground. This results in two 120 V AC line voltages which are out of phase by 180 degrees with each other. The system neutral conductor is connected to ground at the transformer center tap. 240 V AC can be obtained by connecting the load between the two 120 V AC lines."


Re-read what was written. They all say the same thing, or should we parse each word? Remember, phase describes angle!
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

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jlv
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:06 am

lorenfb wrote:Remember, phase describes angle!
Correct!
lorenfb wrote:Re-read what was written. They all say the same thing, or should we parse each word?

Two phase systems have a 90° difference. Split-phase is 180° difference. They are not the same thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-phase_electric_power
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-pha ... tric_power
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
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lorenfb
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:23 am

jlv wrote:
lorenfb wrote:Remember, phase describes angle!
Correct!
lorenfb wrote:Re-read what was written. They all say the same thing, or should we parse each word?

Two phase systems have a 90° difference. Split-phase is 180° difference. They are not the same thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-phase_electric_power
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-pha ... tric_power


That's the best you can contribute, parsing words?
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

RustyShackleford
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:03 am

lorenfb wrote:That's the best you can contribute, parsing words?

You're wrong, period. In science/engineering, specific words are very important, such as the difference between 90 degrees and 180 degrees. I don't want to "pull rank", but I am imminently qualified on electrical matters.

lorenfb
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:31 pm

RustyShackleford wrote:
lorenfb wrote:That's the best you can contribute, parsing words?

You're wrong, period. In science/engineering, specific words are very important, such as the difference between 90 degrees and 180 degrees. I don't want to "pull rank", but I am imminently qualified on electrical matters.


Get a life!


RustyShackleford wrote:Our new 2018 Leaf SV has the quick charge port; great ! But we just went to a Charge Point station and the equipment there plugs into the smaller J1772 port on the car, not the big quick-charge port. Will it still charge at the quick-charge rate (1hr or so) or will it only charge at the Level2 rate (8 hours for the 40kwh battery) ? I'm thinking the latter - meaning that just because a charging station is publicly (and often freely) available does not mean it's any faster than Level2 (that is, it is not guaranteed to be Level 3).


RustyShackleford wrote:So Level 3 must bypass the car's on -board charger, since it can pump an order of magnitude more juice into the car than it can accept via Level 2, right ? (If you have the quick-charge port).


RustyShackleford wrote:So there's no such thing as a charging cable that would only pull 24 amps (and so be ok w/ 30amp circuit)


RustyShackleford wrote:By code you will need at least 40 amps to power the 2018-2019 Nissan 120/240v.


Stick to fixing portable radios.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

RustyShackleford
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:12 pm

lorenfb wrote:Stick to fixing portable radios.
Uh yeah, that was cute the way you posted all the questions I've asked in the last week or so. It's called a learning curve - I've never owned or even thought much about an EV before. Yeah, I'll admit it: you know more about EVs than I do (for now at least). I don't think it makes me stupid. OTOH, understanding the difference between one-phase and three-phase power is a pretty fundamental concept in electrical engineering. And yet you continue to make erroneous claims, in the face of direct contradiction from me, and one or two other guys here.

Here's a tip for you: Admitting you are wrong makes you more of a man, not less of one. Notice how I admitted you know more about EVs than I do ? And yet you bothered to grab a bunch of my posts from the last week to try to convince folks you're right. So, in your words:
Get a life!

smkettner
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:14 pm

Homes in the US are generally 240v, split phase. This is single phase service. Commercial or industrial may have three phase.

No two phase. Fun to argue though because 'phase' has two different meanings that apply. Wiki explains it better than I can.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:26 pm

smkettner wrote:Homes in the US are generally 240v, split phase. This is single phase service. Commercial or industrial may have three phase.

No two phase. Fun to argue though because 'phase' has two different meanings that apply. Wiki explains it better than I can.


Probably the easiest way to explain it is that if you "split" something, there is only one of it. You then end up with two halves that together still add up to just one.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

lorenfb
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:56 pm

smkettner wrote:Homes in the US are generally 240v, split phase. This is single phase service. Commercial or industrial may have three phase.

No two phase. Fun to argue though because 'phase' has two different meanings that apply. Wiki explains it better than I can.


There are two phases or a split phase for those that like to parse words and need to refer to wiki
i.e. each line is 180 degrees out of phase (an angle):

Vphase1 = Vrms x sin (A)
Vphase2 = Vrms x sin (A+180)

Vphase3 = Vphase1 - Vphase2 (any phase other than 180 degrees results in less than 240V RMS)
A three phase system has three phases, each 120 degrees out-of-phase with each phase.

And for those that must always refer to wiki; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_(waves)
In physics and mathematics, the phase of a periodic function F of some real variable t is the relative value of that variable within the span of each full period.


Should we continue parsing terms?
Last edited by lorenfb on Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

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