mirko
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Re: Copper wire thieves

Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:21 am

QueenBee wrote:
mirko wrote:
Smidge204 wrote:There's no cord to steal unless there's a car parked there charging.

If there's a car there, then there's a better chance that there will be people around increasing the chances of getting caught. Unless you parked in a public lot overnight, I suppose.

The bigger advantage would be the cord cold be vehicle specific, so the charging stations would NOT be vehicle specific... making standardization of EVSEs very simple... but that's another discussion.
=Smidge=


So when a car (any car/truck/SUV) is parked in a public parking lot nobody will break into it? I thought that happens a lot. Even at busy malls. There is a chance of them getting caught there too. Why would they be more afraid of getting caught stealing a cable than breaking into a car?

http://www.arlnow.com/2012/11/27/more-c ... city-mall/
http://www.wthr.com/story/16122062/thie ... quare-mall


You are missing the point. It's not about eliminating theft completely it's about making it harder. How many hours is the actual EVSE actually being used? Our EVSEs have cables available for stealing 24 hours a day. The EU EVSEs only have them when a car is charging. Obviously that is going to leave cables out less time therefore reducing the likelihood that the cables will get stolen. This doesn't stop it, just reduces it.


So the point is to make it harder yet still possible for the cable to be stolen and that cable is one that we would have to personally pay for. That is instead of eliminating the cable all together thereby eliminating cable theft.

Why would making theft harder yet still possible ever be better than eliminating the possibility of theft?

BTW, I just priced one of those Mennekes Type 2 charging cables... £155.00 or about $250.00 US.

http://evconnectors.com/Type-2-Electric ... siec-ev16p
-=mirko=-
2012 Nissan LEAF SL Glacier Pearl

Smidge204
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Re: Copper wire thieves

Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:05 am

mirko wrote:Why would making theft harder yet still possible ever be better than eliminating the possibility of theft?

BTW, I just priced one of those Mennekes Type 2 charging cables... £155.00 or about $250.00 US.

It's cute that you'd think theft would be impossible. What's to stop someone from ripping the induction pad out from the bottom of your car just like they do with catalytic converters? You think that'll be less than $250 to fix?

We can go back and forth with this for weeks. Point is, a modular cable system makes EVSE installation and maintenance cheaper which will encourage deployment, solves the standardization problem, and reduces the theft problem. Induction charging only addresses the theft issue but no other, and doesn't solve it to the extent you seem to think it does.
=Smidge=

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Copper wire thieves

Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:09 am

Not all thieves are created equal. Some may have a bit more compunction over stealing a cable that is connected to someone's car as opposed to one that is a sitting duck hanging on a hook in a deserted parking lot. With the former you are stealing from a person (who could be coming back at any time) whereas with the latter there is no perceived victim. Of course there are others who won't give a flip either way.

With a Mennekes type setup you could also have the alarm go off if the cable is disconnected, like the Volt. For that matter you could have EVSEs with a similar feature to detect a cord cut and set off an alarm, but that may not deter many. Face it, we probably aren't going to do anything to people who do this, and they know it. They may also know that the cables aren't even energized, so if you forgot your wood handled tree-loppers no worries, you can gnaw through it with your teeth if necessary.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

QueenBee
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Re: Copper wire thieves

Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:17 am

Smidge204 wrote:
mirko wrote:Why would making theft harder yet still possible ever be better than eliminating the possibility of theft?

BTW, I just priced one of those Mennekes Type 2 charging cables... £155.00 or about $250.00 US.

It's cute that you'd think theft would be impossible. What's to stop someone from ripping the induction pad out from the bottom of your car just like they do with catalytic converters? You think that'll be less than $250 to fix?

We can go back and forth with this for weeks. Point is, a modular cable system makes EVSE installation and maintenance cheaper which will encourage deployment, solves the standardization problem, and reduces the theft problem. Induction charging only addresses the theft issue but no other, and doesn't solve it to the extent you seem to think it does.
=Smidge=


And decreases charging efficiency. Mirko, do you have any idea how much these induction chargers cost and how much the retrofit costs?

$250 probably barely covers the cost to send someone out to an EVSE to replace the cable VS. just buying a new one.

mirko
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Re: Copper wire thieves

Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:20 pm

QueenBee wrote:And decreases charging efficiency. Mirko, do you have any idea how much these induction chargers cost and how much the retrofit costs?


I did provide a link to a site that has prices listed for a cordless setup.

http://www.pluglesspower.com/get-started/
Parking Pad and Control Panel $1,799
Vehicle Adapter, hardware & installation for Nissan LEAF $1,299

So we should give up on cordless charging? Things change. Advancements are made all the time. They are working on improving cordless charging efficiency. Prices will come down.

Cordless charging seems to me like the next logical tech advancement for EVs. I agree that it is probably not ready for prime time today, but some day. There are people that think EVs are not ready for prime time, but it's working well for me.

LTLFTcomposite wrote:With a Mennekes type setup you could also have the alarm go off if the cable is disconnected, like the Volt. For that matter you could have EVSEs with a similar feature to detect a cord cut and set off an alarm, but that may not deter many. Face it, we probably aren't going to do anything to people who do this, and they know it. They may also know that the cables aren't even energized, so if you forgot your wood handled tree-loppers no worries, you can gnaw through it with your teeth if necessary.


I do like the idea of the corded EVSE alarm. I think that I saw where the Mennekes cable prevents unauthorized disconnects, but a cord cut alarm would be needed for that too.
-=mirko=-
2012 Nissan LEAF SL Glacier Pearl

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Copper wire thieves

Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:20 pm

mirko wrote:
QueenBee wrote:And decreases charging efficiency. Mirko, do you have any idea how much these induction chargers cost and how much the retrofit costs?


I did provide a link to a site that has prices listed for a cordless setup.

http://www.pluglesspower.com/get-started/
Parking Pad and Control Panel $1,799
Vehicle Adapter, hardware & installation for Nissan LEAF $1,299

So we should give up on cordless charging? Things change. Advancements are made all the time. They are working on improving cordless charging efficiency. Prices will come down.

Cordless charging seems to me like the next logical tech advancement for EVs. I agree that it is probably not ready for prime time today, but some day. There are people that think EVs are not ready for prime time, but it's working well for me.

LTLFTcomposite wrote:With a Mennekes type setup you could also have the alarm go off if the cable is disconnected, like the Volt. For that matter you could have EVSEs with a similar feature to detect a cord cut and set off an alarm, but that may not deter many. Face it, we probably aren't going to do anything to people who do this, and they know it. They may also know that the cables aren't even energized, so if you forgot your wood handled tree-loppers no worries, you can gnaw through it with your teeth if necessary.


I do like the idea of the corded EVSE alarm. I think that I saw where the Mennekes cable prevents unauthorized disconnects, but a cord cut alarm would be needed for that too.


Because everyone pays attention to alarms these days.

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Copper wire thieves

Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:31 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:Because everyone pays attention to alarms these days.

My thoughts too, but sometimes a poor solution is better than none.

I did consider the possibility of a metallic handle on the charge connector that is energized if you try to disconnect it from the car without the fob being present, but that seemed a bit draconian.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

GRA
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Re: Copper wire thieves

Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:33 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
mirko wrote:<Hopefully I've got the attributions correct>

I do like the idea of the corded EVSE alarm. I think that I saw where the Mennekes cable prevents unauthorized disconnects, but a cord cut alarm would be needed for that too.


Because everyone pays attention to alarms these days.

At least you could have the owner sent a text. If they're close enough they might just spot the people doing it, and be able to call the cops or security. Not a perfect solution, to be sure. What I'd like to know is what kind of security that CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter has, because at $1,000 retail those things are going to be obvious targets.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

lion
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Re: Copper wire thieves

Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:00 am

mirko wrote:Eliminate the cord all together! Use inductive charging! Then all of the copper would be concealed and inaccessible to thieves.

http://www.pluglesspower.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_ ... c_vehicles

@Nissan, get to work on that.


Toyota is very serious about inductive charging (which is weird, considering how much they hate EVs). These inductive charging stations do tend to be slower (at least last time I checked), plus there is the whole inefficiency thing, which goes against the green mindset.

A retractable cable which is enclosed in a locked station until authenticated is the most reasonable solution (IMO).

I really dislike the idea of having to bring your own cable, as it will get dirty.

Smidge204
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Re: Copper wire thieves

Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:48 am

EVDRIVER wrote:Because everyone pays attention to alarms these days.

Include a strand of detonation cord in the cable harness with detonators at each end. THAT will get someone's attention, and destroy the cable itself resulting in no residual value for the thief! :lol:
=Smidge=

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