fooljoe
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Re: charging on generator

Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:10 pm

AlanSqB wrote:The heater is basically doing what the resistor hack mentioned earlier in this thread is doing. You can wire up one of those resistor plugs and use it instead of the heater and it should work fine.
No, the "resistor hack" is just to spoof your EVSE into passing its check for an earth ground. What the heater is doing is somehow solving an issue where a lower-quality generator (that's properly grounded or already "spoofed") "stutters" when the large demand of L2 charging is suddenly placed on it, and the resultant power quality degrades enough that the car's charger decides charging's not going to work.
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AlanSqB
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Re: charging on generator

Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:34 am

That doesn't match the description the poster I was responding to described. He described the generator appearing to remain unloaded when the 240 load was added. It sounds more like the grounding issue that the resistor "fixes" and the heater would also do this.
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fooljoe
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Re: charging on generator

Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:37 am

Were it a grounding issue, the EVSE would report an error and the car would never even try to charge. In this case, the EVSE operated nominally, and the car initiated the charge, but then dropped off.
RavCharge.com | 2012 Rav4-EV | 2011 Leaf SL w/QC batt replaced 11/20/15 | Clipper Creek CS-60 | EVSEupgraded 2013 Leaf EVSE | 3.84kw PV

dsinned
Posts: 152
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Re: charging on generator

Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:32 am

Fooljoe is correct as relates to my generator experience. I don't believe there was any "grounding" issue, only that the generator's output regulation was so poor, at the instant the "L2" EVSE connects to the car's OBC, that it badly bogs down and momentarily fails to regulate output voltage and frequency. These two parameters dip down so low that the car sees it as a impending brownout condition causing charging to immediately abort. Unfortunately, charging does not attempt to resume after this happens should the generator try to recover. Instead, you must unplug the EVSE from the car and essentially "reset" the car's charging system. This doesn't help, because the same thing will just happen again and your car never gets charged.

The only possible solution is to use a much more powerful generator, capable of holding up during larger load surges, or one that has "precision" output regulation or both. The generator I tried only had a 3500 watt rating (4400W surge) apparently not enough to compensate for an initial 240V load surge presented by the OBC in the car (RAV4 EV).

I believe the "heater trick", when the timing is just right, (which is more likely to be hit or miss), can be used to counteract the effect of a surge and keep the generator's output closer to nominal conditions, thus preventing the would-be brownout event.
Last edited by dsinned on Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

muus
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Re: charging on generator

Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:02 pm

The generator is properly grounded so there is no need for a resister to trick the EVSE. Also the generator doesn't bog down when the car starts charging, the car just doesn't charge. The strange thing is, the blue LED starts blinking then after a little while it just stops. Only with the heater connected does charging actually start.
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BrockWI
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Re: charging on generator

Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:59 am

As well as the other reasons mentioned, I have also seen gensets unloaded with a to high of an output voltage or or frequency and loading them a bit can put the hz and voltage back in range. Less expensive gensets tend to be about right voltage and freq wise between 1/3 to 1/2 loaded.
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muus
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Re: charging on generator

Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:58 am

BrockWI wrote:As well as the other reasons mentioned, I have also seen gensets unloaded with a to high of an output voltage or or frequency and loading them a bit can put the hz and voltage back in range. Less expensive gensets tend to be about right voltage and freq wise between 1/3 to 1/2 loaded.


That's what I though at first, which is why I adjusted the frequency to 60 Hz exactly. The voltage was within range (around 245v). With testing I noticed that the frequency would drop a bit when loaded so I adjusted the no load frequency up a little.
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dsinned
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Re: charging on generator

Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:04 pm

This speaks to the advantage of Japanese made "inverter" type generators. Although they are WAY more expensive than most of the Chinese made generators, they tend to have much better output regulation control as well as better load transient response characteristics. It surprises me, that there are so few if any non-Japanese made generator companies adopting more precise output regulation control into their products. For most all digital electronics, which most all modern day kitchen appliances, stereos, TVs and "charging devices" employ, Chinese generators are simply not the best choice due to their potential compatibility issues with "sensitive" electronics. I think the ONLY reason they are even marketable in the U.S. today, is because they are so much less expensive than portable Japanese inverter type generators. In some cases the price difference is a much as a factor of 3 or 4 to 1 for the same output power rating!

nerys
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Re: charging on generator

Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:15 pm

What about outputting 12v into a small agm battery and they using an inverter with cleaner output on the 12v battery? Expensive? To much losses?
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GlennD
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Re: charging on generator

Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:42 am

nerys wrote:What about outputting 12v into a small agm battery and they using an inverter with cleaner output on the 12v battery? Expensive? To much losses?


I do not think you appreciate how much energy is involved. 12A at 120V is 120A at 12V assuming no other losses.
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