wwhitney
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Re: NEC definitely allows cord-and-plug connected 240V EVSEs

Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:53 pm

evnow wrote:BTW, Wayne welcome to the forum. Are you involved with NEC or industry in some way ?

Only as an interested polyglot. I'm working full time (and alone) on remodeling my 1910 house in Berkeley, CA. That included replacing all the premises wiring, so I became interested in the NEC and started following discussions at the great website forums.mikeholt.com. From reading there I absorbed how to decipher ROPs and ROCs, and how to use them to elucidate the meaning of unclear code language via the code-making panels' comments. Of course, such comments don't have the force of law, but hopefully would help one convince any misguided local building officials.

Cheers, Wayne

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evnow
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Re: NEC definitely allows cord-and-plug connected 240V EVSEs

Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:00 pm

AndyH wrote:So...this specific item is essentially a statement of support from Mr. Lambert?


Yes. Essentially there were two comments on this aspect with Lambert supporting and Anthony (#2121) asking for a revision. The support would have been to essentially oppose the revision. The support was accepted (essentially means no change) and the revision request was rejected. But the important thing is panel statement - which clarifies the position in black&white.

Panel Statement: The panel reaffirms its action on this proposal. An EVSE meeting the requirements of 625.18, 625.19, and 625.29 can be cord-and-plug connected even when the voltage is greater than 120 VAC.


This is what we should use everywhere to show that 240V EVSE need not be hardwired.
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evnow
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Re: NEC definitely allows cord-and-plug connected 240V EVSEs

Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:01 pm

wwhitney wrote:Only as an interested polyglot. I'm working full time (and alone) on remodeling my 1910 house in Berkeley, CA. That included replacing all the premises wiring, so I became interested in the NEC and started following discussions at the great website forums.mikeholt.com. From reading there I absorbed how to decipher ROPs and ROCs, and how to use them to elucidate the meaning of unclear code language via the code-making panels' comments. Of course, such comments don't have the force of law, but hopefully would help one convince any misguided local building officials.


Interesting, thanks for the link.

So, are you planning to wire the house for now for an EVSE ?
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Re: NEC definitely allows cord-and-plug connected 240V EVSEs

Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:06 pm

I think that there is NOT any "clear statement" in the J1772 standard that Level 2 EVSE's be hardwired.

Table 1 says "Per NEC 625"

Figure 4 (described as "The primary method ...", not the ONLY method) labels the two hot wires simply as the "Electric Supply", without any requirement for plugin or hardwired.

Perhaps, because a plug is not shown explicitly in Figure 4, some interpret that as "plugin forbidden"?

So, nothing I can find in J1772 specificly requires "hard-wired" (or specifically prohibits plugin) for Level 2 EVSE.

So, what part of J1772 is AndyH referring to?

Some states have not yet adopted the 2008 NEC, and an earlier version of NEC 625 apparently did not provide for plugin Level 2 EVSEs. Perhaps that is where the confusion arises?
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wwhitney
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Re: NEC definitely allows cord-and-plug connected 240V EVSEs

Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:16 pm

evnow wrote:So, are you planning to wire the house for now for an EVSE ?

Well, my garage is detached and currently in danger of falling down. :) Right now I'm remodeling my ktichen, after that I have some exterior work to finish. So sometime next year I can demolish the garage and build a replacement. It will likely have a 60 or 100 amp feeder to it and therefore be trivial to wire for an EVSE.

In the meantime, I will rely on 120V charging via an exterior receptacle by the driveway. My girlfriend's commute is about 20 miles roundtrip, so no problem. I obviously work at home and can use the Prius for my occasional needs. Also, I refuse to pay someone $1500 for easy work I can do myself, including the permits.

Cheers, Wayne

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Re: NEC definitely allows cord-and-plug connected 240V EVSEs

Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:30 pm

wwhitney wrote:Also, I refuse to pay someone $1500 for easy work I can do myself, including the permits.


Absolutely. I think Nissan didn't realize that initially there will be a lot of people who want to do this on their own or may be there really aren't that many. It just seems so in a forum like this. Either way - Nissan should encourage such people clealy stating they welcome such enthusiasts. May be even sell EVSE through the dealers ... if someone is going to make money selling EVSEs, why not their dealers ?
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Re: NEC definitely allows cord-and-plug connected 240V EVSEs

Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:42 pm

evnow wrote:
wwhitney wrote:Also, I refuse to pay someone $1500 for easy work I can do myself, including the permits.


Absolutely. I think Nissan didn't realize that initially there will be a lot of people who want to do this on their own or may be there really aren't that many. It just seems so in a forum like this. Either way - Nissan should encourage such people clealy stating they welcome such enthusiasts. May be even sell EVSE through the dealers ... if someone is going to make money selling EVSEs, why not their dealers ?

Thank you, Wayne, for all the elucidation !

Yes, sell thru dealer, good idea. But we don't know anything about the partnership agreement Nissan has with AV that might interfere with this strategy.
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Re: NEC definitely allows cord-and-plug connected 240V EVSEs

Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:48 pm

Wayne - I saw the item on the lower left of page 453 (70-440):
12-28 Log #2121 NEC-P12 Final Action: Reject
(625.13)
_______________________________________________________________
Submitter: Michael A. Anthony, University of Michigan / Rep. APPA.ORG -
Association of Education Facility Executives
Comment on Proposal No: 12-54
Recommendation: Accept in Principle. Modify 625.13 as written by the
submitter, Mr. Lambert, as shown below:
Electric vehicle supply equipment rated at 125 volts, single phase, 15 or 20
amperes shall be permitted to be cord-and-plug-connected. EVSE rated greater
than 20 amperes and not more than 250 volts and or a part of a system 625.18,
625.19, and 625.29 shall be permitted to be cord-and-plug-connected. All other
electric vehicle supply equipment shall be permanently connected and fastened
in place. This equipment shall have no exposed live parts.
Substantiation: This is an important proposal and I would not like to see
its core concept lost because of a technicality. Equipment run at 250V and
20A is very common and concern over voltage and current charging platform
should not impede development of this technology in households, schools, or
elsewhere.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The panel reaffirms its action on this proposal. An EVSE
meeting the requirements of 625.18, 625.19, and 625.29 can be cord-and-plug
connected even when the voltage is greater than 120 VAC.
Number Eligible to Vote: 14
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 14


when I found the items that I originally quoted in the 'marine plug' thread.

So... If this is definitive then I have to agree that we can use a cordset.

If that's the case, then why in the world have J1772, the DoE-sponsored eTEC briefings to various US regions and Canada, and the current batch of EVSE manufacturers chosen to only support/promote/specifiy a hard connection for J1772 Jan 10-compliant EVSE?

Did they misunderstand the NEC? Is there something else in play?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=10902#p10902
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=10911#p10911
http://www.bchydro.com/etc/medialib/internet/documents/environment/EVcharging_infrastructure_guidelines09.Par.0001.File.EV%20Charging%20Infrastructure%20Guidelines-BC-Aug09.pdf
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=10893#p10893
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=10500#p10500
Clipper Creek LCS-20 Datasheet says the device must be hardwired:
http://www.absoluteefficiency.com/LEAF/EVSE/ClipperCreek_LCS-20.pdf

Or could it be that the PREVIOUS NEC - the one in effect when all this stuff was in 'gestation mode' - was the limiting factor?

http://www.bchydro.com/etc/medialib/internet/documents/environment/EVcharging_infrastructure_guidelines09.Par.0001.File.EV%20Charging%20Infrastructure%20Guidelines-BC-Aug09.pdf
Page 63 references applicable NEC articles. This version of 625.14 clearly prohibits L2 w/plugs. The current NEC doesn't include this text, but the entire EVSE industry and standards bodies are acting as if it's still in place.

Section 625.14 Rating:
Level 1. 125vac. This method, which allows broad access to charge an EV, permits plugging into a common, grounded 125-volt electrical receptacle (NEMA 5-15R or 5-20R) when cord-and-plug is approved. Level 2. 240 VAC, 40 amp. electric vehicle supply equipment shall be permanently connected and fastened in place.

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Re: NEC definitely allows cord-and-plug connected 240V EVSEs

Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:21 pm

garygid wrote:I think that there is NOT any "clear statement" in the J1772 standard that Level 2 EVSE's be hardwired.

Table 1 says "Per NEC 625"

Figure 4 (described as "The primary method ...", not the ONLY method) labels the two hot wires simply as the "Electric Supply", without any requirement for plugin or hardwired.


Yes, Gary, it is described as the 'primary method'. Sigh. it's not saying the Primary Method refers to how the EVSE is connected to the AC supply - it's saying:
4.3 AC Level 2 Charging
The primary method of EV/PHEV charging that extends AC power from the electric supply to an on-board charger from a dedicated EVSE as shown in Figure 4.


DEFINITIONS
3.1 AC Level 1 Charging
A method that allows an EV/PHEV to be connected to the most common grounded electrical receptacles (NEMA 5-15R and NEMA 5-20R. THe vehicle shall be fitted with an on-board charger capable of accepting energy from the existing single phase alternating current (AC) supply network. The maximum power supplied for AC Level 1 charging shall conform to the values in Table 1. A cord and plug EVSE with a NEMA 5-15P plug may be used with a NEMA 5-1=20R receptacle. A cord and plug EVSE with a NEMA 5-20P plug is not compatible with a NEMA 5-15R receptacle.

3.2 AC Level 2 Charging
A methos that uses dedicated AC EV/PHEV supply equipment in either private or public locations. The vehicle shall be fitted with an on-board charger capable of accepting energy from a single phase alternating current (AC) electric vehicle supply equipment. The maximum power supplied for AC level 2 charging shall conform to the values in Table 1.


Notice that the definition of L1 DID include 1. that fact that it COULD be connected with a plug, and 2. the exact combination of plugs that can be used. Now notice what is NOT included in the L2 definition - no mention of plug what so ever.

This is also reflected throughout the balance of the document. All the diagrams for a L1 EVSE show a plug and define that plug like this: NEMA 5-15 or 5-20 Plug -- while the diagrams for L2 devices say 'electric supply'.

They don't specify a plug for L2 devices because they have already stated in the beginning of the document that OTHER standards also apply - and one of those standards is the NEC - and the NEC in place when the standard was being worked SPECIFICALLY REQUIRED hard-wiring the EVSE to the mains supply.

IF a plug was allowed, they are required to tell us what plug to use because their definition of the scope of the standard is (page 4):
1. SCOPE
This SAE Recommended Practice covers the general physical, electrical, functional and performance requirements to facilitate conductive charging of EV/PHEV vehicles in North America. This document defines a common EV/PHEV and supply equipment vehicle conductive charging method including operational requirements and the functional dimensional requirements for the vehicle inlet and mating connector.


The DID define the range of connectors allowed for connecting a L1 device to mains, but did NOT define the range of connectors allowed for a L2 device because their spec is limited by the NEC and the NEC in place at the time forbids connectors for L2.

garygid wrote:Perhaps, because a plug is not shown explicitly in Figure 4, some interpret that as "plugin forbidden"?

So, nothing I can find in J1772 specificly requires "hard-wired" (or specifically prohibits plugin) for Level 2 EVSE.

So, what part of J1772 is AndyH referring to?

Some states have not yet adopted the 2008 NEC, and an earlier version of NEC 625 apparently did not provide for plugin Level 2 EVSEs. Perhaps that is where the confusion arises?


I've already quoted you page and section and copied the blasted definition of a L1 and L2 device per J1772 that clearly shows the difference. No organization is going to say in paragraph 3.12: Gary - what this means is that we don't want you to connect a potentially 90A device to your 40A dryer plug in a garage where you might store gasoline or have a gas-fueled water heater. So sorry." :evil:

While the CURRENT NEC - the 2008 with changes voted later - might allow a plug - that very very clearly was not the case when the DoE sent eTEC to tell the entire country how to do it. If it was already legal to connect the EVSE with a plug, why is Nissan spending so much money to streamline the permitting and inspection process for hard-wired EVSE? Why do the EVSE manufacturers state specifically that the devices must be hard-wired? Why are EV advocacy organizations suggesting that 100% hardwired might be too restrictive? I listened to the last J1772 meeting - JUNE 2010 - and there were a lot of organizations represented - including auto companies and EVSE manufacturers - and they seem to be under the impression that the devices need to be hard wired.

So no. It might be allowed NOW per the 2008 NEC as amended - and that's GREAT! But it was not allowed when all these specs and briefings and plans and other now-overcome-by-events documents were created.

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Re: NEC definitely allows cord-and-plug connected 240V EVSEs

Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:24 pm

By the way, Wayne - thank you for sharing what you've learned about the NEC process - very much!

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