kieranmullen
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:49 pm

Well I have 400 Amp and 480V I can buy cash. I just would like a positive ROI but I wonder how long?

Wine country starts there...

1345 SW Fern Hill Rd

Forest Grove, OR 97116
2012 SL 5-29-14 6,000 Miles 6-16-15 24,562 (all bars)

cwerdna
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:14 pm

kieranmullen wrote:Well I have 400 Amp and 480V I can buy cash. I just would like a positive ROI but I wonder how long?

You can get some idea of costs from http://www.americas.fujielectric.com/sites/default/files/DC%20Quick%20Charging%20-%20FEA%20Comparison%20Study%20%20(25kW%20vs%20%2050kW)%207-3-12.pdf, besides the $49K average cost for installation of http://nissanqc.com/ at a Nissan dealer (presumably that $49K includes cost of the $15.5K DC FC).

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

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drees
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:10 am

hill wrote:The contact person over the two dual format QC's in Orange county could tell you. He's bee pretty quick when ever someone has had an inquiry.

Looks like this is the station that the OC dual-plug stations use:
http://www.btcpower.com/products-and-ap ... t-Charger/

Appear to be available in 25 kW and 50 kW versions.
'11 LEAF SL Powered By 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV

kieranmullen
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:26 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Aug 2013
Leaf Number: 020781
Location: Hillsboro, oregon

Re: Chademo vs SAE

Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:29 am

$49k OK let me see what the roi is on that...never?
2012 SL 5-29-14 6,000 Miles 6-16-15 24,562 (all bars)

cwerdna
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:45 am

kieranmullen wrote:$49k OK let me see what the roi is on that...never?

Discussion about how much to charge and ongoing costs for DC FCs has been discussed numerous times here. I haven't followed all of them (no time).

Besides the cost per kWh (which isn't low in CA), many utilities hit hard w/demand charges, which are common on commercial power plans (even outside CA) if you have over a certain amount of draw (once you cross a certain # of kW over a 15-minute window, IIRC). And, guess what? Over 20 kW DC FCs will trigger it on many (most?) utilities.

Example threads:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8854
viewtopic.php?p=285012#p285012

Car Charging Group bought Ecotality/Blink when they went bankrupt. There are a bunch of Blink CHAdeMO DC FCs in California and other states. See posts/threads below.

Read forward from this post: viewtopic.php?p=331916#p331916
viewtopic.php?p=366476#p366476

I also started a thread at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/vie ... f=7&t=3753 re: L2 and DC FC station costs. I'm not sure if one exists here.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
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DNAinaGoodWay
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:51 am

kieranmullen wrote:$49k OK let me see what the roi is on that...never?


You'd have a captive clientel while they charge, you could boost ROI by offering some additional way for them to spend money while they're there.
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new
@ 36 months, 34k, 270 GID, 57.49 Ahr

'17 Bolt LT



6.72 kW Array

kieranmullen
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:26 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Aug 2013
Leaf Number: 020781
Location: Hillsboro, oregon

Re: Chademo vs SAE

Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:05 am

50ksqft grocery store nope... Otherwise what coffee stand ? Nope. Coffee would be out and back to the moon... actually did some math and roughly would take 6 Eiffel Tower tall of coffees to break even

I guess just hitch up some Level 2 units outside for free and call it a day. $25k maybe $50k nope
2012 SL 5-29-14 6,000 Miles 6-16-15 24,562 (all bars)

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DNAinaGoodWay
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:01 am

Wow, that's a really tall coffee. But yeah, best if you call it a day. Like the sayings don't go, "Better to quit while you're behind." And "Nothing ventured, nothing lost."
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new
@ 36 months, 34k, 270 GID, 57.49 Ahr

'17 Bolt LT



6.72 kW Array

kieranmullen
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:26 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Aug 2013
Leaf Number: 020781
Location: Hillsboro, oregon

Re: Chademo vs SAE

Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:03 am

No pain no gain?

DNAinaGoodWay wrote:Wow, that's a really tall coffee. But yeah, best if you call it a day. Like the sayings don't go, "Better to quit while you're behind." And "Nothing ventured, nothing lost."
2012 SL 5-29-14 6,000 Miles 6-16-15 24,562 (all bars)

GRA
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:26 pm

kieranmullen wrote:50ksqft grocery store nope... Otherwise what coffee stand ? Nope. Coffee would be out and back to the moon... actually did some math and roughly would take 6 Eiffel Tower tall of coffees to break even

I guess just hitch up some Level 2 units outside for free and call it a day. $25k maybe $50k nope

Providing EVSEs and/or QCs is only justifiable as an advertising expense, like paved parking. You aren't going to see a reasonable ROI on charging fees anytime soon, if ever. If you're not going to generate more business at lower cost than other forms of advertising, then it makes no financial sense to do this. Which isn't to say you wouldn't do so anyway, just not for straight business reasons.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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