pkulak
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Location: Portland, OR

Re: Chademo vs SAE

Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:41 pm

Well, it looks like the i3 guys are having a hell of a time getting the combo chargers to, ya know, charge:

http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1006

Looks like it's really finicky about exactly how it's plugged in. If there's too much weight on the end of the handle pulling it down, it won't seat properly on the top.

The more I hear stories about this, and use the new "gun" connectors on the new Blink CHAdeMO units, the more I think that the Combo connectors have nothing on CHAdeMO, and possibly are a step backwards. Those new CHAdeMO connectors are beaten only by the Tesla connection, in my opinion, if that. They are nearly the perfect way to charge your car (apart from all the authentication nonsense, which isn't the spec's fault).

GRA
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:16 pm

pkulak wrote:Well, it looks like the i3 guys are having a hell of a time getting the combo chargers to, ya know, charge:

http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1006

Looks like it's really finicky about exactly how it's plugged in. If there's too much weight on the end of the handle pulling it down, it won't seat properly on the top.

The more I hear stories about this, and use the new "gun" connectors on the new Blink CHAdeMO units, the more I think that the Combo connectors have nothing on CHAdeMO, and possibly are a step backwards. Those new CHAdeMO connectors are beaten only by the Tesla connection, in my opinion, if that. They are nearly the perfect way to charge your car (apart from all the authentication nonsense, which isn't the spec's fault).

From what I'm reading this is more a physical problem than a strictly electrical one. Clearly, BMW needs to re-design the area around the receptacle so that it doesn't bend/deform when the weight of the connector and cable is on it. In short, it's an issue, but more one of teething problems than anything critical to the charging standard. The original CHAdeMO connectors sucked, too.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

jsongster
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Location: MTZ CA

Re: Chademo vs SAE

Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:32 am

GRA wrote:
pkulak wrote:Well, it looks like the i3 guys are having a hell of a time getting the combo chargers to, ya know, charge:

http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1006

Looks like it's really finicky about exactly how it's plugged in. If there's too much weight on the end of the handle pulling it down, it won't seat properly on the top.

The more I hear stories about this, and use the new "gun" connectors on the new Blink CHAdeMO units, the more I think that the Combo connectors have nothing on CHAdeMO, and possibly are a step backwards. Those new CHAdeMO connectors are beaten only by the Tesla connection, in my opinion, if that. They are nearly the perfect way to charge your car (apart from all the authentication nonsense, which isn't the spec's fault).

From what I'm reading this is more a physical problem than a strictly electrical one. Clearly, BMW needs to re-design the area around the receptacle so that it doesn't bend/deform when the weight of the connector and cable is on it. In short, it's an issue, but more one of teething problems than anything critical to the charging standard. The original CHAdeMO connectors sucked, too.



So... we could all just support improving the already working fine but clumsy one.... which the gun connectors do... or once again in the interest of proprietary/nationalist idiocy, redesign the wheel. Colossally stupid in my opinion.
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GRA
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:50 pm

jsongster wrote:
GRA wrote:
pkulak wrote:Well, it looks like the i3 guys are having a hell of a time getting the combo chargers to, ya know, charge:

http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1006

Looks like it's really finicky about exactly how it's plugged in. If there's too much weight on the end of the handle pulling it down, it won't seat properly on the top.

The more I hear stories about this, and use the new "gun" connectors on the new Blink CHAdeMO units, the more I think that the Combo connectors have nothing on CHAdeMO, and possibly are a step backwards. Those new CHAdeMO connectors are beaten only by the Tesla connection, in my opinion, if that. They are nearly the perfect way to charge your car (apart from all the authentication nonsense, which isn't the spec's fault).

From what I'm reading this is more a physical problem than a strictly electrical one. Clearly, BMW needs to re-design the area around the receptacle so that it doesn't bend/deform when the weight of the connector and cable is on it. In short, it's an issue, but more one of teething problems than anything critical to the charging standard. The original CHAdeMO connectors sucked, too.



So... we could all just support improving the already working fine but clumsy one.... which the gun connectors do... or once again in the interest of proprietary/nationalist idiocy, redesign the wheel. Colossally stupid in my opinion.

Already working fine? Do you have any Blink CHAdeMO QCs in your area?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

MikeinDenver
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:40 am
Delivery Date: 03 May 2014
Leaf Number: 413923
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Chademo vs SAE

Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:04 pm

GRA wrote:

So... we could all just support improving the already working fine but clumsy one.... which the gun connectors do... or once again in the interest of proprietary/nationalist idiocy, redesign the wheel. Colossally stupid in my opinion.

Already working fine? Do you have any Blink CHAdeMO QCs in your area?[/quote]


Just because Blink may not work well isn't the fault of CHAdeMO. The two at dealers near me I have used and never had a problem.
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cwerdna
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:13 am

jsongster wrote:So... we could all just support improving the already working fine but clumsy one.... which the gun connectors do... or once again in the interest of proprietary/nationalist idiocy, redesign the wheel. Colossally stupid in my opinion.

Besides the bashing and facts we've already given about CCS, viewtopic.php?p=183351#p183351 was a decent translation of the situation at that time.

viewtopic.php?p=279363#p279363 was one of Tony's updates on the situation. The i3 recently started shipping in the US, but it uses Combo1 in the US vs. Combo2 in Europe (http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/vie ... 5012#p5012). Oh, and it uses CHAdeMo in Japan! (And the J1772 inlet is in the frunk: http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-gets-chademo-charged-japan/).

Spark EV is selling in puny numbers (http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/) w/J1772 CCS available as an option since either December 2013 or January 2014.

Looks like the next Ford Focus still will have no DC FC. Mercedes B-Class EV also won't have DC FC either.

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Berlino
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:26 am

jsongster wrote: or once again in the interest of proprietary/nationalist idiocy, redesign the wheel. Colossally stupid in my opinion.


iirc, one of Tony Williams' theories was that they went away from CHAdeMO just to put a stick in the wheels of Nissan.

I have to say they have succeeded in Quebec. We may be the North American state or province with the least DCQC (1) per EV (~3500).

Currently, deployment is on hold because of a perceived need to install dual-standard stations and the preferred provider's dual-standard DCQC is not yet CSA certified. If the requirement was only CHAdeMO, this hurdle would have been crossed long ago.

I estimate there are 5-20 SAE/CCS combo capable Spark EVs or i3s in Quebec, compared to ~750 LEAFs, i-MiEVs and Model S's.
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evnow
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:34 am

Berlino wrote:iirc, one of Tony Williams' theories was that they went away from CHAdeMO just to put a stick in the wheels of Nissan.

Theory ? I thought that was a fact ;)

I have to say they have succeeded in Quebec. We may be the North American state or province with the least DCQC (1) per EV (~3500).

Yes, they were trying to make sure Nissan (and other Japanese manufacturers) do not gain any first mover advantage. If you can't beat them in the market place - beat them in the board room.
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MikeinDenver
Posts: 328
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Delivery Date: 03 May 2014
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Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Chademo vs SAE

Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:57 pm

evnow wrote:
Berlino wrote:iirc, one of Tony Williams' theories was that they went away from CHAdeMO just to put a stick in the wheels of Nissan.

Theory ? I thought that was a fact ;)

I have to say they have succeeded in Quebec. We may be the North American state or province with the least DCQC (1) per EV (~3500).

Yes, they were trying to make sure Nissan (and other Japanese manufacturers) do not gain any first mover advantage. If you can't beat them in the market place - beat them in the board room.


I thought competition was great...oh yeah until you aren't competitive then it turns into protectionism is great.
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JeffN
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Re: Chademo vs SAE

Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:09 pm

aarond12 wrote:What happens if/when Tesla opens up their Supercharger standard for the rest of the world?

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/09/tesl ... r-patents/


Done.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our ... belong-you

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