LeftieBiker
Posts: 9584
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:15 pm

My original claim was that the Model 3 rides "rougher" than a Leaf. Now you say:

" Try to understand that the large majority of Model 3 owners think the ride is quiet, refined and compliant while having amazing dynamics..."

Prove it. The actual, non-fanboy reality, based on everything I've read about the car, seems to be that the Model 3 has a very firm ride, and that lots of Model 3 owners like that. You have no idea whatsoever how many of them just tolerate it because they like everything else about the car, and my not having driven one makes zero difference here. So show me owners writing that they love how the car behaves in normal driving over bumpy roads.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2842
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:29 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:My original claim was that the Model 3 rides "rougher" than a Leaf.

Your post was
In my case a Model 3 would have far less utility than a Leaf (because of the lack of a heated steering wheel, more difficult access, harsher ride, etc), and the additional range and track performance would be of no additional benefit. In fact, the rougher ride would be a definite negative point for me... the real car to compare a Model 3 with is the Bolt.

Your claims, although you have never been in a Model 3 and I'm willing to guess that the couple of reviews you cherry picked do not directly compare the Model 3 with either the LEAF or the Bolt.

STFU
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

tesleaf
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:44 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Oct 2018
Location: Vancouver, WA

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:40 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:..... many of them just tolerate it because they like everything else about the car....


I am used to firm riding cars as I have had lowered cars with H&R or Eibach springs from Honda Accord to Mazda Miatae.

However, what would bother me the most in a TM3 is that the center touch screen controls everything and it is the only display.

I love how LEAF speedometer is almost at the position of HUD.

It is just dumb to have all the displays in the center console like the NAV is in a 'normal' car.

That is the reason I won't get a TM3 besides the overprice.
2015 Leaf S w/ QC . I have Leaf Spy Pro.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9584
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:22 pm

SageBrush wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:My original claim was that the Model 3 rides "rougher" than a Leaf.

Your post was
In my case a Model 3 would have far less utility than a Leaf (because of the lack of a heated steering wheel, more difficult access, harsher ride, etc), and the additional range and track performance would be of no additional benefit. In fact, the rougher ride would be a definite negative point for me... the real car to compare a Model 3 with is the Bolt.

Your claims, although you have never been in a Model 3 and I'm willing to guess that the couple of reviews you cherry picked do not directly compare the Model 3 with either the LEAF or the Bolt.

STFU


I know the kind of ride I like, and I know how the Model 3 is described as riding. My post was an expression of my preference. I also didn't "cherry pick" any reviews. I just haven't seen any that called the Model 3 a smooth riding car on bumpy roads. If you really don't think a Model 3 has a harsher/rougher ride than a Leaf, you are in the minority.

Now, as for telling me to "Shut The Fuck Up": you appear to be off your meds again, so back in the filter with you - this time for a year, or however long it takes for you to learn civility. Your positive contributions don't nearly exceed your negatives.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

golfcart
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:08 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:59 am

Since this thread has degraded into a Tesla Model 3 pissing match... I did have one comment on this idea of comparing the Tesla to the Leaf.

I remember the big hyping point of the Model 3 was going to be a Tesla for $35k (under $30k after the tax credit) but the cheapest one I can build on their website is $46,000. Given that the tax credit is going to start getting phased out next year already, will there ever actually be a Model 3 sold for under $30k including the tax credit? I don't think there will be. So lets be honest about their relative costs.

For comparison, a fully loaded 2018 Leaf SL with pro-pilot is $38k MSRP that's already $8k less than the base Tesla in black with no options currently available. And in reality I could go get a fully loaded SL for about $33k today at multiple dealerships in my area in multiple colors. Furthermore, a bare bones 2018 Leaf S is under $30k MSRP and probably close to $26k in reality.

It just seems like apples to oranges to me. Y'all can argue about the ride stiffness and what not until you are blue in the face but a Tesla is just not an option for me due to the cost no matter how badass it would be to have one.
2015 S with Charge Package

SageBrush
Posts: 2842
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:57 am

tesleaf wrote:However, what would bother me the most in a TM3 is that the center touch screen controls everything and it is the only display.

This was a pretty frequent worry of people on the Tesla forum *before* they took ownership of the car. Now it is never talked about except to say that the concern turned out to be a non-issue and they *prefer* the way it is setup in the Model 3.

The way to reduce car ownership costs is to keep the car a long time. Once you accept that reality the Model 3 is moderately priced. People who gauge car costs by a 5 year timetable are not prioritizing cost of ownership.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 2349
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:45 am

SageBrush wrote:
tesleaf wrote:However, what would bother me the most in a TM3 is that the center touch screen controls everything and it is the only display.

This was a pretty frequent worry of people on the Tesla forum *before* they took ownership of the car. Now it is never talked about except to say that the concern turned out to be a non-issue and they *prefer* the way it is setup in the Model 3.

The way to reduce car ownership costs is to keep the car a long time. Once you accept that reality the Model 3 is moderately priced. People who gauge car costs by a 5 year timetable are not prioritizing cost of ownership.


Some of us might well keep a LEAF well beyond 5 years. Some of us see no additional value for the extra money for a Model 3. Some of use actually love our LEAFs, and might well replace the LEAF with a new LEAF if it dies, is totaled, etc. As I already have.

Would you please take the Tesla sales pitches someplace else? Please?
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

SageBrush
Posts: 2842
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:06 pm

WetEV wrote:Some of us

Change that to "at least one of us" and I'll agree with that part of your post.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 9398
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:54 pm

As someone who prefers better handling to softer ride, I'd by perfectly okay with the Model 3's firmer ride, as reported by virtually most reviews I've read*. It's a Sports sedan aimed to compete with the 3-series; of course it will ride firmer than a car intended primarily for A to B commuting on potholed/truck-waved freeways. Now, if Nissan ever gets serious about a Nismo LEAF (instead of the badge-engineered current version), then it will make sense to talk about the relative ride qualities of the two vehicles.

And there's no reason for incivility - we get enough of that from our politicians.



* Here's one example of a contrary view: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-reviews-differ-on-ride-quality-2018-3

Here's a discussion on the tesla forum: https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/model-3-ride-quality
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GlennD
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jul 2013
Leaf Number: 410357
Location: Anaheim

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:09 pm

WetEV wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
tesleaf wrote:However, what would bother me the most in a TM3 is that the center touch screen controls everything and it is the only display.

This was a pretty frequent worry of people on the Tesla forum *before* they took ownership of the car. Now it is never talked about except to say that the concern turned out to be a non-issue and they *prefer* the way it is setup in the Model 3.

The way to reduce car ownership costs is to keep the car a long time. Once you accept that reality the Model 3 is moderately priced. People who gauge car costs by a 5 year timetable are not prioritizing cost of ownership.


Some of us might well keep a LEAF well beyond 5 years. Some of us see no additional value for the extra money for a Model 3. Some of use actually love our LEAFs, and might well replace the LEAF with a new LEAF if it dies, is totaled, etc. As I already have.

Would you please take the Tesla sales pitches someplace else? Please?


I am holding out for the promised 35K actually 37K in white. It may never happen but Elon promised . I am not holding my breath. They say that currently they can not make a 35K car without loosing money.
2012 Cayenne Red SL traded for:
2013 Pearl White SL Premium
Traded for a Cirrus White 2014 Mercedes B (totaled)
2016 Urano Gray eGolf SEL w/ drive assist
Loved the VW but it sat too low for my old body
Back to a Cirrus White 2017 B250e

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