smkettner
Well-known member
My point was the breaker is not going to be protecting against a lightning strike.LeftieBiker said:
Although consider unplugging the vehicle.
two-phase 50amps electric switch for EV charger
- Thread starter Tagar
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Although consider unplugging the vehicle.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Ditto, except in the case of lightning.Baltneu said:
As for the latter. Not true. The EVSE does draw a tiny bit of power (usually just a few watts) when in standby as opposed to thousands of watts (passed to the car) when the connected car is actively charging.
GRA
Well-known member
^^^H'mm, ca. 26.28kWh/year assuming only standby. Money-wise it's irrelevant, but on a nation-wide basis x 120m households the energy starts to add up, 3.1536GWh, although still a tiny fraction of U.S. electricity usage (not far short of 4 PWh). During my off-grid sales days I was once chastised by housemates because I insisted they unplug the microwave between uses to eliminate the vampire draw of the clock. Negotiations reached a compromise - they'd leave it plugged in, and cover the annual extra cost of a few bucks :lol: But even now, many residences and living situations later, I still have my infotainment electronics on a switched powerstrip - when they're off, they're OFF. The microwave stays plugged in because it's the only clock in that part of my place.
Here's my EV charger project photos - https://photos.app.goo.gl/GZgZ3eSi6bWPx6iU8
(the drywall now needs some spackling and painting )
ps. With feedback from this forum, I haven't installed the switch so NEMA 14-50 and charger will always be energized
(the drywall now needs some spackling and painting )
ps. With feedback from this forum, I haven't installed the switch so NEMA 14-50 and charger will always be energized
specialgreen
Well-known member
Tagar said:
My only suggestion would be to add strain relief to the J1772 cable, so that the weight of the cable doesn't put pressure on the grommet where it enters the top of the EVSE.
Here's my high-tech strain relief. The plastic jar has a 2x2" piece of plywood in the base (to keep the wood screw from tearing-through the plastic), and I zip-tied a bigger jar lid over the regular jar lid.
specialgreen
Well-known member
Tagar said:
Hi, Tagar. I'm using a 12-hour Intermatic timer, available for about $18 at any "big box" hardware store. I put the timer in-line with the low-voltage control wire from the J1772 (I extended the control wire out to the timer then back to the EVSE), rather than inserting the timer in-line with utility power. To do this you need to run an additional pair of low-voltage wires from the EVSE out to the timer. Since it's low voltage, the amp rating on the timer doesn't matter.
I charge one of two ways:
- Usually I want to limit charge to 80%, so I twist the timer roughly 1 hour per 10% needed, and I hit the "timer cancel" inside the car so the charging starts immediately. Charging about 3 hours per day is pretty typical, as I drive about 10k miles/year.
- If I want a full charge for the following day, then I just twist the timer to 12 hours, and let the car timer handle it.
If you have cheap time-of-day power rates at 2am, then this crude timer isn't good enough.
Why are you using the car's timer at all with this setup?
specialgreen
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
That's what my spouse asks
. The only benefit is if I will be needing the full range the next day, then having the timer keeps the Leaf from charging to 100% immediately, and sitting at 100% until the next morning. That only happens one or two times each month, and pack balancing usually adds 2+ hours to charge time, so we're only talking about sitting at 100% for maybe 7-14 hours per month (at night). You and my spouse are right, probably not worth having to hit "cancel" on the other 28 days.Very interesting. Btw, I don't see low voltage wires on the photo.
Did you have to open up EVSE to get access to the insides and then run wires directly from there to the timer?
Thank you for sharing @specialgreen
Didn't know it's possible to control charging this way.
Did you have to open up EVSE to get access to the insides and then run wires directly from there to the timer?
Thank you for sharing @specialgreen
Didn't know it's possible to control charging this way.
specialgreen
Well-known member
Yes, with the EVSE open, you can see both the large-gauge power and thin gauge control wires from the J1772 to the EVSE. I had my 120v EVSE open anyways to convert to 240v. I think this falls in the camp of "if you're the kind of person who opens your EVSE, then this is easy", and not in the camp of "opening your EVSE is a really good idea". Most people would be better-served by buying an EVSE that includes timer functions (like OpenEVSE or JuiceBoxPro), and optionally selling your old EVSE on eBay.
specialgreen
Well-known member
Tagar said:
Pre-2018 Nissan EVSEs supplied in the USA were 120 volt. Thankfully, Nissan has "seen the light" and started shipping 240v EVSEs.
My only suggested improvement would be to limit the stock EVSE to 24A in North America and to use a 6-30 plug; and to use an autoranging power supply for the microcontroller (100-240v 50-60hz). 24A would slow charging by 13% (5.76kw versus the full 6.6kw with a 14-50), but would let lots of people plug into existing dryer outlets. Also, people could use adapter cables to charge from either 5-30 (2.88kw) or 14-50 (6.6kw) at campgrounds.
When Nissan increases the onboard charger (hopefully to 9.6kw), then the 14-50 makes more sense. It would be nice to see that on the 60kwhr Leaf.
Your best bet in the US may be to buy a 3-pole disconnect and not use one of the poles. Here are a couple that might work for you:
NEMA Style ("knife" switch) - You will need to add a grounding block:
https://www.amazon.com/SIEMENS-GNF322-240-Volt-Non-Fused-General/dp/B005G95DDE
Here is a 2-pole version that is outdoor rated for a couple bucks more:
https://www.amazon.com/SIEMENS-LNF222R-240-Volt-Non-Fused-Outdoor/dp/B006205AB6
Rotary styles are available but a little harder to find and not quite as readily available. Here is a rotary 63A:
https://www.alliedelec.com/product/eaton-cutler-hammer/p3-63-i4-svb/70611225/
A final option is to go to one of your local home stores and pick up a box that would typically be used for a home HVAC system. The standard small sizes are 30, 60, & 100 amps. Make sure you get at least a 60 amp since you are connecting a 50 amp receptacle.
Cheers!
NEMA Style ("knife" switch) - You will need to add a grounding block:
https://www.amazon.com/SIEMENS-GNF322-240-Volt-Non-Fused-General/dp/B005G95DDE
Here is a 2-pole version that is outdoor rated for a couple bucks more:
https://www.amazon.com/SIEMENS-LNF222R-240-Volt-Non-Fused-Outdoor/dp/B006205AB6
Rotary styles are available but a little harder to find and not quite as readily available. Here is a rotary 63A:
https://www.alliedelec.com/product/eaton-cutler-hammer/p3-63-i4-svb/70611225/
A final option is to go to one of your local home stores and pick up a box that would typically be used for a home HVAC system. The standard small sizes are 30, 60, & 100 amps. Make sure you get at least a 60 amp since you are connecting a 50 amp receptacle.
Cheers!
specialgreen
Well-known member
Agreed; Home Depot has a 60A A/C disconnect for $12.
I got solar. Then I realized that I had spent about $5.59 per kw-hr (generated per year). So removing a single 10 watt vampire load (= 87.6 kw-hrs/year) was like reducing my solar array's installed cost by $490! Why would I buy $500 of something I didn't need? Another example: a typical 45 watt broadband modem/router/wifi can defeat $2,200 that you spent on solar. And one embarrasing example: I found that I had a heated bathroom floor set for 75F, which was running through summer when the A/C was cooling the house to 70F! I would not have found that without going breaker-by-breaker looking at power use. You could cough-up tens of thousands to put-in solar, but there are other things you can do which will have just as big an impact as a solar array, and at very little cost.
So yeah, the TV/computer are on power strips, and off when not in use. Our two-year energy consumption was 8490 MW-hrs (not counting EV). Our house draws 60 watts at night (except when the fridge kicks in).
Many people in Europe have switches on every outlet, and/or unplug anything not in use (teapot, etc). Nothing evil about shutting stuff off when you aren't using it.
You seem to be missing two points. First, your analogy to buying solar, while amusing, isn't accurate. Removing a 10 watt parasitic drain doesn't save anyone $500. It saves whatever it reduces the electric bill by, generally a few dollars a year. Second, since solar installations have to have some excess capacity or fail to work well, the 10 watt reduction likely saves little or nothing there, either, unless the total of all of those drains is enough to require expansion of the system. Now, wearing out an outlet and/or large appliance plug because of excessive cycling does cost significant money. So the smart approach is to reduce all extra loads that don't provide a service - like extending the life of a charging station setup. By all means unplug your phone chargers when not in use. Just don't do it with an EVSE plug. Install a heavy duty outlet switch if you like, but if you really need to do that then the solar system is undersized.
specialgreen
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
Sorry, Leftie. That post was pretty muddled. No, not $500 for commercial power. 10 watts x 24 hours x 365 days x 20 years x $0.15/kwhr = $263. More in California, less in Iowa. You could say "my device won't last 20 years", but I've had Internet routers since 1996, and I'm sure I'll have one in 2036. Time passes, but you'll still have a bunch of gizmos.
For the $500, I was not describing the cost to buy the electricity: I was describing the Opportunity Cost, assuming that you wanted to buy solar power to offset your electrical consumption. If you want solar, then you've already calculated what 20 years of XYZ kw-hours of production is worth to you. In my case, I spent $30k on an array generating 5370 kw-hrs/yr. 5370 kw-hrs/year is the same amount that gets consumed by just 613 watts of continuous vampire load. If I had a house with my solar panels, and with 613 watts of vampire load (and no other loads), then it would break-even (net zero). The 613 watts of vampire load (if avoidable) would completely wipe-out my well-meaning investment. If I have put a personal "$30k" price-tag on the value of generating 5730 kw-hrs of clean power per year for 20 years, then I should also value a 613-watt reduction in vampire load (for 20 years) as having the same $30k value to me.
Obviously, if you are not the kind of person who would like to install a solar array, then only the monetary cost applies ($263 for 10 watts for 20 years). My message was supposed to be that many people see virtue in installing a solar array; but don't see any point in reducing consumption by shutting things off when you aren't using them. But the former is hard and expensive, and the latter is cheap and easy.
I do get your point. We'd have solar here if A: we didn't have slate roofs, and B: didn't have a big old hydro plant 3/4 of a mile away, providing us with zero carbon power for $.014 a kwh. But the problem for solar homes isn't so much having small parasitic loads as having lots of them. It could also be argued that you could reduce usage of some large appliance by 5% and 'wipe out' the loss from those little loads. Thus saving $1000. ;-)
davewill
Well-known member
They're not mutually exclusive, you could do both and save $1500...LeftieBiker said:
Seriously, the truth is that, for me, the bother of buying and using all these extra on/off switches, plus the negative aesthetics (more cords) aren't worth it. Perhaps some automated system that killed power to the offending devices in certain situations, but that would be still more gizmos with their own vampire loads and wires...If it's worth it to some folks, I think that's great.