alozzy
Well-known member
@LeftieBiker except that no one in their right mind will buy my dead battery LEAF for $2k and then spend another $8.5k for a new pack when instead they can buy a 3 or 4 year old LEAF for about the same amount.
If you knew then.. what you know now....
- Thread starter coach81
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Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
alozzy said:
I'm assuming your car is in excellent shape. I'd rather have an older Leaf with a new pack and more range than a newer Leaf with less range.
Oh, and I don't do Twitter. No @ needed in front of my handle.
alozzy
Well-known member
powersurge said:
What good are parts if your only option to get a better battery pack is to pay Nissan their extortion fee? If you are lucky enough to have third party replacement options in your area, then you're very lucky. I suspect very few people will be so lucky...
alozzy
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
You are definitely in the minority then, most car owners would pick the younger car. A new pack on an old LEAF certainly improves it's value, but not by anything close to $8.5k
I'm not considering market value so much as someone being able to afford a nice Leaf with 80 miles of range. The only real alternative to that is to get a used 30kwh Leaf, and that would cost more even if you were to take the risk on those packs.
garsh
Well-known member
powersurge said:
A contradiction within a single post. Good job!
The reason you're able to get cheap used parts for a Leaf is because the resale values are so poor.
rogersleaf
Well-known member
Almost every car that is being used daily as a work tool will be worth scrap if driven long enough. I think a key factor is to pick one with enough capacity so when heavily degraded still has enough capacity to get the job done for the time you expect to own it. Example... I already know my short commute route takes 16-20 KWh in good weather and easily mid-20’s+ in the cold. The longer route is entirely expressway, faster, and takes more capacity than the 24KWh leaf had in optimum weather. I also know that in NE Ohio that the only charging station I can depend upon is hanging on my garage wall. A 40KWh leaf would likely work fine most of the time even if degraded to 60% and likely get me well into 100k+ mile range. And then, a 60 KWh leaf at 50% degraded could likely be driven a lot longer than I would want to own any car. The last time I check, only lost depreciation on a car was when I sold it so make the right choice up front will lessen the depreciation loss.coach81 said:
Tsiah
Well-known member
No.coach81 said:
Nissan doesn't seem to be honoring their $2500 refurbished battery program. One of my friends called to get a price on a pack for a 2012...$7800. :shock:
**** all of that. I have 5 years and 1 month left on my loan (at minimum payments).
I really don't want a car that's down below 70% (hell even at 80% the car will be significantly less useful to me) needing an $8000 battery and I still have 2+years left on the loan and have to take out a huge loan to replace the battery. My 2016 SL is already down to 91.5% SOH at 37,200 miles.
Also, my kids have both grown enough in the last 14 months that the back seat is genuinely not big enough for them anymore.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Who ever said that that the above program is actually available in the US? Unless you have a reputable source stating that it's available in the US... I've not seen such an announcement, yet.Tsiah said:
Unfortunately, that sounds about inline with the reports we've seen for 24 kWh packs... somewhere in the low $7K's to as high as $8500.Tsiah said:
Nubo
Well-known member
Tsiah said:
Does your friend live in Japan?
Tsiah
Well-known member
No. Until last night I was unaware that refurbished battery price was Japan only.Nubo said:
OrientExpress
Well-known member
I've gone through 3 LEAFs since 2011 (a 2011, 2014, and now a 2018), and all of the cars have been top-tier vehicles.
The 2011 never had a warranty claim, but did have several SW updates, and the only maintenance items were tires, cabin filters, brake fluid change and wipers. The 2011 did lose one bar at 30K miles and a second at 45K miles. When I reserved the 2011 LEAF in 2009, I did quite a bit of homework on Nissan's efforts and knew that there was going to be a risk with a first generation car, and there was bound to be things that might be issues especially since it was a new technology vehicle, but I felt confident that that the car would work out. This is why I leased the car (hint, never buy a first generation of any kind of technology, as that version is always a compromise of cost, schedule, and tech).
This LEAF was put into duty exclusively for urban commuting which even with the battery capacity shrinking, it performed as required, we simply had to charge more often than when it was new. Back then the public charging infrastructure was practically nonexistent, so we were fortunate that we had L2 charging both at home and at work.
Our second LEAF was a 2014 that we drove for 55K miles, and it had all 12 bars and the same range as new when we turned it in. It also never had a warranty claim, and the only maintenance was tires, cabin filter, brake fluid changes, and wiper blades. This was proof enough for me that the car and its technology was getting better with each new iteration. The first generation LEAFs are high quality vehicles, with the most challenging piece of technology, the battery, evolving over time to also be of good quality for most situations.
Our current 2018 LEAF was entered into service in mid-April of 2018, and it too has been flawless. With its larger battery, we routinely take it on trips as far as 350 miles from home. The new battery returns between 165 and 175 miles on a full charge, but given its size we normally only charge it to 80%. We have yet to experience the dubious claims called Rapidgate, and our total cost for recharging has been $0.00 by using a combination of NCTC and the free Drive the Arc Fast charge network that serves northern California from Monterey to Lake Tahoe. We find that ProPilot Assist is very competent, and is great for relieving the stress of bumper to bumper freeway traffic.
So I can sum up our experience with the Nissan LEAF as being very positive. I highly recommend the 2014 through 2019 LEAFs and recommend considering used 2011 and 2012 LEAFs if they have had their traction battery updated to the newer version.
Will we consider another LEAF when the 2018's lease expires in 2021?
2021 is a long way away and we will certainly put them at the top of the list as the incumbent BEV, but BEVs in general are at the tipping point of achieving mainstream acceptance as every person's transportation. We expect that there will be quite a bit of competition in the value-priced BEV segment by then, so we will also be considering those other contenders too. Currently our top possible contenders for a 2021 LEAF replacement include VW and Audi with their MEB platform, and Hyundai/Kia's offerings. I expect that there will be a wide range of mid-sized BEV powered SUV/CUVs to consider and expect that by 2021 range for all mainstream BEVs will start at 220-250 miles which was the average range for all ICE vehicles 25 years ago.
For myself, I am a long time Porsche fan, and have a reservation marker for a Porsche Taycan Sportback for the 2021/22 time frame.
The wife is happy continuing to drive a LEAF-sized BEV and for urban driving it has been an excellent choice. In the 2021 time frame I expect that our garage will continue to have the same mix of performance GT and urban economy cars that it currently has, except that they will all be BEV powered.
The 2011 never had a warranty claim, but did have several SW updates, and the only maintenance items were tires, cabin filters, brake fluid change and wipers. The 2011 did lose one bar at 30K miles and a second at 45K miles. When I reserved the 2011 LEAF in 2009, I did quite a bit of homework on Nissan's efforts and knew that there was going to be a risk with a first generation car, and there was bound to be things that might be issues especially since it was a new technology vehicle, but I felt confident that that the car would work out. This is why I leased the car (hint, never buy a first generation of any kind of technology, as that version is always a compromise of cost, schedule, and tech).
This LEAF was put into duty exclusively for urban commuting which even with the battery capacity shrinking, it performed as required, we simply had to charge more often than when it was new. Back then the public charging infrastructure was practically nonexistent, so we were fortunate that we had L2 charging both at home and at work.
Our second LEAF was a 2014 that we drove for 55K miles, and it had all 12 bars and the same range as new when we turned it in. It also never had a warranty claim, and the only maintenance was tires, cabin filter, brake fluid changes, and wiper blades. This was proof enough for me that the car and its technology was getting better with each new iteration. The first generation LEAFs are high quality vehicles, with the most challenging piece of technology, the battery, evolving over time to also be of good quality for most situations.
Our current 2018 LEAF was entered into service in mid-April of 2018, and it too has been flawless. With its larger battery, we routinely take it on trips as far as 350 miles from home. The new battery returns between 165 and 175 miles on a full charge, but given its size we normally only charge it to 80%. We have yet to experience the dubious claims called Rapidgate, and our total cost for recharging has been $0.00 by using a combination of NCTC and the free Drive the Arc Fast charge network that serves northern California from Monterey to Lake Tahoe. We find that ProPilot Assist is very competent, and is great for relieving the stress of bumper to bumper freeway traffic.
So I can sum up our experience with the Nissan LEAF as being very positive. I highly recommend the 2014 through 2019 LEAFs and recommend considering used 2011 and 2012 LEAFs if they have had their traction battery updated to the newer version.
Will we consider another LEAF when the 2018's lease expires in 2021?
2021 is a long way away and we will certainly put them at the top of the list as the incumbent BEV, but BEVs in general are at the tipping point of achieving mainstream acceptance as every person's transportation. We expect that there will be quite a bit of competition in the value-priced BEV segment by then, so we will also be considering those other contenders too. Currently our top possible contenders for a 2021 LEAF replacement include VW and Audi with their MEB platform, and Hyundai/Kia's offerings. I expect that there will be a wide range of mid-sized BEV powered SUV/CUVs to consider and expect that by 2021 range for all mainstream BEVs will start at 220-250 miles which was the average range for all ICE vehicles 25 years ago.
For myself, I am a long time Porsche fan, and have a reservation marker for a Porsche Taycan Sportback for the 2021/22 time frame.
The wife is happy continuing to drive a LEAF-sized BEV and for urban driving it has been an excellent choice. In the 2021 time frame I expect that our garage will continue to have the same mix of performance GT and urban economy cars that it currently has, except that they will all be BEV powered.
I was planning to do an electric vehicle conversion of a midsize SUV before Nissan announced the LEAF. I reserved one as soon as they opened the reservation website, ordered the 2011 as soon as I was given the chance, and purchased it as soon as it arrived from Japan. The 2011 was very reliable and I would probably still have it if it had not met an untimely demise. I had a chance to move to something else, but ended up determining that another LEAF was the best fit for my needs. My choices in 2015 in AZ were Tesla S, BMW i3, Smart, Ford Focus, and LEAF. I like the Smart, but it does not have enough freeway range for my daily needs; the Focus was theoretically available, but dealer said they could not get one because they were all being shipped to CA for CARB credits (range was also marginal); BMW dealer claimed long range, but battery capacity was lower than LEAF so I did not believe the claims and purchase/lease rates were high (user forums mentioning unrealistic range claims reminded me of this forum in 2011); and Tesla S was larger and more expensive than I wanted for a daily driver (was also concerned about leaving it parked without being plugged in for extended time at office or airport--was told by sales representatives that was not recommended). The 2015 has also been very reliable so I plan to keep it for a long time. The traction battery has less capacity loss than either the original or replacement battery in the 2011.
I do have a few regrets:
1. I should have found a way to fund the purchase of a Tesla (Lotus) Roadster while they were still available.
2. My dealer encouraged me to consider trading the 2015 for a 2017 with the larger battery. I was afraid of early reports of premature capacity loss with the 30 kWh batteries so I ruled out trading. Since it looks like the apparent capacity loss was related to software and new software seems to make the instrumentation more accurate, I regret not trading while I could still get a new car with larger battery (and longer capacity warranty) without features that I don't want on the 2018 and 2019 models.
I do have a few regrets:
1. I should have found a way to fund the purchase of a Tesla (Lotus) Roadster while they were still available.
2. My dealer encouraged me to consider trading the 2015 for a 2017 with the larger battery. I was afraid of early reports of premature capacity loss with the 30 kWh batteries so I ruled out trading. Since it looks like the apparent capacity loss was related to software and new software seems to make the instrumentation more accurate, I regret not trading while I could still get a new car with larger battery (and longer capacity warranty) without features that I don't want on the 2018 and 2019 models.
If you are certain that the 30kwh pack issue is just bad software (I'm not) then you should be able to pick up one with a bar or two lost pretty cheap, get the update, and Bob's Your Uncle you have what you want.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Yes, probably, given what was available at each of the times and at those prices.
I leased my first one at end of July 2013. There were a number of reasons, such as changing technology, not being sure that I'd necessarily be at the same or a job (within range and w/charging) for that long, wanting to just dabble w/the technology, putting my $ where my out was, anticipating that I'd need to move (could have range issues or inability to charge at home) since I don't own the place that I live at. I'd just started a new job a few weeks before.
When it came time to look for a replacement in July 2015 due to above Leaf's residual minus discount being way overpriced, I did look at other choices but it seemed like a used Leaf was the best choice for me as they were cheap. I mentioned other stuff I was considering at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=447070#p447070.
In July 2015, I don't think it was known that somehow 4/2013+ build months (mine was built 5/2013) had better batteries. I figured I'd be getting something just as bad as previous Leafs in terms of degradation. So, I'm actually doing a lot better in degradation than I originally anticipated. Still at 11 capacity bars past 62K miles after having lost the first one in Nov 2017 at just under 50K miles.
Sure, Teslas were out at the two times I listed but they were too expensive (way more than I'd want to pay) and the company seemed too shaky financially at the time. And, I'd seen enough about Tesla DUs and questionable reliability at the time (from CR, TMC and elsewhere) besides results like https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/wrap-up.html. No thanks.
I leased my first one at end of July 2013. There were a number of reasons, such as changing technology, not being sure that I'd necessarily be at the same or a job (within range and w/charging) for that long, wanting to just dabble w/the technology, putting my $ where my out was, anticipating that I'd need to move (could have range issues or inability to charge at home) since I don't own the place that I live at. I'd just started a new job a few weeks before.
When it came time to look for a replacement in July 2015 due to above Leaf's residual minus discount being way overpriced, I did look at other choices but it seemed like a used Leaf was the best choice for me as they were cheap. I mentioned other stuff I was considering at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=447070#p447070.
In July 2015, I don't think it was known that somehow 4/2013+ build months (mine was built 5/2013) had better batteries. I figured I'd be getting something just as bad as previous Leafs in terms of degradation. So, I'm actually doing a lot better in degradation than I originally anticipated. Still at 11 capacity bars past 62K miles after having lost the first one in Nov 2017 at just under 50K miles.
Sure, Teslas were out at the two times I listed but they were too expensive (way more than I'd want to pay) and the company seemed too shaky financially at the time. And, I'd seen enough about Tesla DUs and questionable reliability at the time (from CR, TMC and elsewhere) besides results like https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/wrap-up.html. No thanks.
LeftieBiker said:
If I could get a new 2017, I would. Since I cannot, I will keep my 2015 which has 70,000 trouble free miles on it. I know it is in good condition so I will keep it rather than take a chance on an unknown used car.
goldbrick
Well-known member
I was tempted to sell my 2017 and get a 2018 since with all the rebates that were and are available here it would have been a nearly straight swap. I didn't do it because 1) sales tax, registration, etc would have added a $1000 or so to the deal and 2) I don't need or want all the new electronics on the 2018.
I've made my peace with the dumb heater on my 2017 S so the only benefit (to me) of a 2018 would be the added range. That would let me do a round trip to the local airport on a single charge but I rationalized that away since I usually just take the bus. And since I take the bus, everyone else in my family can take the bus too
I've made my peace with the dumb heater on my 2017 S so the only benefit (to me) of a 2018 would be the added range. That would let me do a round trip to the local airport on a single charge but I rationalized that away since I usually just take the bus. And since I take the bus, everyone else in my family can take the bus too