Wall Socket Installation- advice???

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coach81

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Messages
147
Location
Louisiana
So my electrician is coming tomorrow and Thursday to replace my dated electrical panel, and then run a line to a new outdoor socket for my upcoming Leaf purchase.

Getting a 50 amp 4 prong "dryer outlet", and an 8 gauge wire, I instructed him to run me a 240v outlet. To start, I will not be purchasing a separate charger, I plan to just use the adapter on my portable cord, and plug directly into the outlet.


This all sounds good to you guys?? Any advice, suggestions, comments?
 
I am sure there will be other suggestions, but I would like to emphasize the absolute necessity of protecting users of this circuit to an outdoor receptacle with a GFCI circuit breaker (40a if using 8 AWG, 50a if you decide on using 6 AWG wire).
 
A 30A circuit is only good for 24A. You might want to go with a 40A circuit (32A). THE cost is in the labor. Upgrading the size is trivial in comparison. all normal EVSE'S have GFCI built in. Some of the Chinese units lack that. Amy unit that claims J1772 IS complaint . it is part of the specification. Some lack UL approval though.
 
I had an electrician replace my dated Federal Pacific panel. Requirements in Anaheim have changed. My old panel was 100A. Now they require a 200A or better panel. Since excluding the EVSE my TED said i drew 13A. A 100A panel would have been fine but I now have a Cuttkler Hammer (Eaton) unit. It does give me extra slots, though.
 
GlennD said:
A 30A circuit is only good for 24A. You might want to go with a 40A circuit (32A). THE cost is in the labor. Upgrading the size is trivial in comparison. all normal EVSE'S have GFCI built in. Some of the Chinese units lack that. Amy unit that claims J1772 IS complaint . it is part of the specification. Some lack UL approval though.

He wrote "50 amp dryer circuit" whatever that is. Range circuit, I guess.
 
GlennD: Concerning your statement about EVSE's built in GFCI protection: does Nissan's EVSE (or any other plugin EVSE) protect you at the receptacle where you plug it in? If you say 'yes' -- how? If you say 'no' -- that's why you need a GFCI breaker!
 
Wow.. I have no idea what any of that talk is...(GFCI, 30a/40a breaker, etc).. I sure hope my electrician does!!! Any chance you can explain any of this for a silly football coach???

Ok.. just googled it.. Ground Fault.. I understand. I will speak to my electrician about it. Thanks!


All I know is.. my electrician is coming by later today to see about putting in a new panel (my current VERY OLD one is full), and to install a "dryer outlet (4 prong)" so when I get my Leaf I can plug it in to charge at hopefully 240v.
 
Dryer circuits are usually 30 amps. If you want to charge using the included charging cable, you need a 40 or 50 amp circuit. 40 is good enough, but the kind of outlet associated with a 50 amp outlet is a good match for your charging cable. So you'd want either a 40 amp circuit with a 4 prong 50 amp outlet (one prong of it won't get used to charge the car) or a "normal" 50 amp circuit and outlet.
 
OP
I am no electrician but I used a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, 50 amp breaker and #6 wire for my 2018 SL.
Best of luck.
 
coach81: Article 625.25 of the 2017 NEC requires GFCI protection for all 50a or less circuits with a receptacle used for EV charging, regardless of whether the receptacle is outdoors or not. The use of GFCI devices in homes since its inception in the 70s has undoubtedly saved thousands of lives, which is the main reason I strongly recommend its use in this instance. Plugging/unplugging into a 14-50 receptacle should take quite a bit of effort if the receptacle is not worn out, which makes it easier to inadvertently touch one (or both!) of the electrically live prongs -- especially for a child, a tired and/or intoxicated and/or elderly adult in poor lighting conditions, etc.

The cost of a 50a GFCI breaker is currently about $100 (versus about $20 for a non-GFCI breaker).

PS While installing a new receptacle in a situation like this, I would also recommend if at all possible to install the receptacle away from a nearby strong ground -- especially at the receptacle itself by using a non-conducting plastic (rather than a grounded metal) outlet cover plate.
 
Will two GFCI devices in series create nuisance tripping? if your locality has indeed adopted the 2017 NEC
it may be the case that the that requirement is for plugs that are not in a dwelling. the Tesla guys go on at length about this here:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/ground-fault-protection-a-new-complication-for-ev-charging.88338/

My EV charges from non-GFCI outlets because its a dual-use with my welder, which would never work with GFCI. also tt30 and 14r50 RV power outlets are not GFCI, they are outside. Like an EVSE, an RV generally have its own GFCI.

I certainly don't want anyone to get a shock, can you imagine the bad press if someone where to get hurt charging their EV, we don't want that. but at the same time, if protecting for a very unlikely event causes a situation where the thing trips out at weird times, it could make it so your EV charging might not be 100% reliable, potentially leading to other unsafe things, like emergency work arounds. common sense and practical on-the ground factors should always be included in the decision. But cost should not influence you, you'll be saving so much with the EV over gasoline that the $80 or whatever for the GFCI upgrade is nothing.
 
ripple4: I'm afraid your post just muddles things, which is not what the OP wants.

Let's see if we can get some clarity on basic issues:
1) The GF protection in a plugin EVSE offers NO PROTECTION for the user at the receptacle -- one of the reasons for preferring a direct wired EVSE (which don't need a GFCI breaker on that circuit as well). It only provides GF protection from the relay in its control box to the J1772 plug.

2) If you are installing new wiring for a dedicated EVSE receptacle, it is conceptually unlikely for leakage current causing GF tripping to occur -- and I have not seen any posts here complaining of nuisance tripping.

3) NEC regulations are MINIMUM standards, so whether or not they technically apply to you at this time is irrelevant if you want the significant safety that GFCI provides you and others!

Disagreements with any of the above? Please also give agreement as well.
 
Baltneu said:
OP
I am no electrician but I used a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, 50 amp breaker and #6 wire for my 2018 SL.
Best of luck.
This is what I also installed. I use a 40 amp EVSE (most people say charger), which is "overkill" but will be good for future EV's with larger batteries. I'm pretty sure 40 amps is the max for this circuit. If I wanted to use a 50 amp EVSE, I'd have to install wire rated for 60 amps and a 60 amp breaker. At least I think that's correct.
 
theothertom: I think you meant to write "If I wanted to use a 48 amp EVSE...".
 
Baltneu said:
OP
I am no electrician but I used a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, 50 amp breaker and #6 wire for my 2018 SL.
Best of luck.

Baltneu- Met with electrician today... 14-50 receptacle, 50 amp breaker, and #8 gauge wire. Quick question for you, does your setup give you 240 (or should I say enough) volts???

With regard to the circuit breaker, my electrician said it would be in the box, and I have nothing to worry about.

thanks
 
Update... electrician said he can't get to the install until Friday.. we agreed on tomorrow afternoon originally. I am going pick up my '19 tomorrow.. about 70 miles away. Assuming it will be fully charged upon departure, will I have enough battery left to go the 20 or so miles for errands and work Friday as he puts in the install?

I have a backup car if not... what do you all think? I plan on driving the vehicle very conservatively on the way home. I will be mostly interstate driving however.
 
A fully charged 40kwh SV or SL Leaf will easily go 120 miles, with heat, in normal Winter weather if driven reasonably. If it's an S it should easily do 100+ miles. Don't worry.
 
coach81: To answer your implied concern, #8 wire is THINNER than #6 wire, not thicker. A subtle technical issue is the type of wire insulation that is used. Without getting too mired in the technical weeds #8 wire is usually ok for up to 40a EVSEs (and using a 50a breaker) if it is separate wires run in a conduit, but not ok if wrapped together in cable called NM-B -- then you usually need the thicker #6 wire for your conducting wires. I believe the main difference is the former has been found to run cooler than the latter, given the same wire gauge -- hence the different NEC 'ampacity' rules.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Dryer circuits are usually 30 amps. If you want to charge using the included charging cable, you need a 40 or 50 amp circuit. 40 is good enough, but the kind of outlet associated with a 50 amp outlet is a good match for your charging cable. So you'd want either a 40 amp circuit with a 4 prong 50 amp outlet (one prong of it won't get used to charge the car) or a "normal" 50 amp circuit and outlet.

I fully agree that a 30A circuit isn't. If you beleive the NEC all EVSE's are continuous loads so the circuit has to be dertated to 80 percent.They see worst case. It does not matter that you change less than three hours. They look at she worst case.
 
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