cwerdna
Posts: 9181
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2013 with low miles or 2015 with high miles?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:25 pm

krush40 wrote:Is it normal for a 2015 SL with 30,000 miles to have 11 bars? Also, what is the normal expected bar loss rate?

Both of these depend on the climate primarily, and to probably to a lesser degree charging habits and mileage. And then there are calendar losses (over time).

viewtopic.php?p=545757#p545757 is in a hot climate and lost 4 bars already on his '15. I bet there are those with '15s in the mild Pacific NW who are still at all 12 bars with well above 30K miles.

You can see at viewtopic.php?p=520738#p520738 a pointer to a guy in the PNW who lost his first bar on a '13 (lizard battery didn't exist yet) in July 2017 at 92.7K miles. You can also see my info vs. a guy in Phoenix with the same build month as me. My 5/2013 built Leaf at 63K miles in a hotter part of the SF Bay Area still has 11 bars and SOH is fluctuating between 82.xx and 84.xx% now.

There is no known published "expected" bar loss rate. Nissan I'm sure has some data but hasn't provided any. And, as I said, depends on the above factors and we can only guess based upon notes that we have. And, it also depends on the revision/version of battery.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

WetEV
Posts: 2797
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: 2013 with low miles or 2015 with high miles?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:22 am

cwerdna wrote:I bet there are those with '15s in the mild Pacific NW who are still at all 12 bars with well above 30K miles.


I've got a 2014, both older and thought to be not as good of battery, almost 50k miles and 12 bars. I'm expecting a bar loss perhaps spring/summer of 2020, based on past history.

Cool climate helps. Hot climate will be faster. Battery in Seattle should last roughly 3 times longer than battery in Phoenix.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 11782
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2013 with low miles or 2015 with high miles?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:58 am

I've got a 2014, both older and thought to be not as good of battery,


From what I've seen, the "Wolf" packs are just as good as the "Lizard" packs, provided the climate isn't too hot.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

krush40
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:01 am
Location: Southern California

Re: 2013 with low miles or 2015 with high miles?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:26 pm

So it looks like I have a buyer for my car, wrapping up tomorrow when the bank is open.

Then my search for a Leaf begins.

Just to recap, I have a 20-25 mile round trip commute all in rush hour freeway traffic at a slow crawl.

Other than to work and back, my car basically sits parked. We drive our Toyota Sienna everywhere.

I’m focusing my search on a 2015 SL but in reality quick charge is my only real requirement. I know LeafSpy will be my friend, but is 11 bars common or should I be holding out for one that still has 12?

Also, anything else I should know that I don’t know of? For the record, there’s an electric dryer hook up in my garage that isn’t used but has power. I’m assuming that should work for charging purposes with the right charger.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 11782
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2013 with low miles or 2015 with high miles?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:04 pm

I was going to write that you don't need to only look at 2015 Leafs, but living in SoCal maybe you should - those and older Leafs with new warranty replacement batteries, as those, if replaced from 2015 on, have the 2015 Lizard pack as well. 11 bars is now the norm for cars up until 2015, but there should be quite a few 2015 cars with at least 12 bars showing.

Assuming the dryer circuit is 30 amps you can use a charging station or cable of up to 24 amps. A Clipper Creek HCS-30 would work fine (they name them by the circuit rating, not the actual load).
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

powersurge
Posts: 1289
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: 2013 with low miles or 2015 with high miles?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:44 am

Although there are only 2 years separation of the 2 cars, the newer does not sound like a bargain.

First, the body of any car that has 80K miles on it will no doubt require some kind of repairs in the next 20k miles...

Second, In order to get 80K miles, there have been many charge/ discharge cycles on that battery. Not good... The one who did well in the deal was the original owner who knocked out that mileage and is not getting rid of the car...

Also, I haven't seen a price on these cars...

My overall feeling is that if you can afford $10-13K for a used leaf, then you can afford a new one, which will be $15-20K out of pocket.

krush40
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:01 am
Location: Southern California

In the market for a used Leaf

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:23 am

It looks like by using an old thread I may have caused some confusion. All the above questions still apply, but those two exact cars are no longer available.

I started asking questions to see if a Leaf was an option for me. Now that I have a buyer for my car, I’m ready to purchase.

We are mainly looking for a second car that will barely be used that will cost as little as possible over the next 5 years or so, while also making a smart decision.

While a new one would be great, it’ll do the same amount of sitting in park. I know there’s rebates available, but a new one for $15,000?

Lothsahn
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: 2013 with low miles or 2015 with high miles?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:58 am

Honestly, it's all about the battery. If you want the car to last, get one with a good battery. Be wary of cars with 12 bars for age, location history, etc. It is possible to reset the BMS and make the car think it's a 12-bar car when in reality it's not.

I see two good viable options:
1) Find any SV or SL Nissan Leaf that is 2015 or newer (or contains a battery replacement in 2015 or later) with a good number of bars left. This car will likely last you many years. Consider that the Leaf's overall reliability is excellent, but part replacement costs are very high on the Leaf, so if things break, it could be big $$$$. This makes a newer car with active warranty a bonus. I would make sure the car has a heat pump (SV or SL trims, no S). 30 or 40 kWh is a bonus, as it will have an even longer range (although there are some degredation concerns with the 30 kWh batteries that don't concern me too much)

2) Buy a cheap Nissan Leaf, knowing that it won't go very far. For instance, in your climate, my 7-bar 2011 would go about 40 miles. If this range is acceptable to you, you can pick up a very cheap Leaf with that range, then dump it when the range no longer meets your needs in a couple years. You can find cars in this range for ~$4500. Assuming you could sell it in 2 years just for parts for $2k, that would come out to $1250/yr for transportation, not including gas savings. Gas in CA might cost you more than $1250/yr...

I don't know if #2 makes sense to you. With a 40 mile range, you'll be frustrated that you can't take your car on longer trips or spur of the moment decisions. It will truly be a work-only and very short travel car. But it would provide higher-than-usual reliability for an older car and extremely inexpensive transportation during that time, assuming no catastrophic maintenance failures. And if you do get in an accident or have a major problem, you can just go buy another--there are tons of 7-9 bar 2011 Nissan Leafs in California for ~$4500 on Craigslist.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

powersurge
Posts: 1289
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: In the market for a used Leaf

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:30 am

krush40 wrote:It looks like by using an old thread I may have caused some confusion. All the above questions still apply, but those two exact cars are no longer available.

I started asking questions to see if a Leaf was an option for me. Now that I have a buyer for my car, I’m ready to purchase.

We are mainly looking for a second car that will barely be used that will cost as little as possible over the next 5 years or so, while also making a smart decision.

While a new one would be great, it’ll do the same amount of sitting in park. I know there’s rebates available, but a new one for $15,000?



You should not be considering an EV if you will hardly drive in the next 5 years. The car and its battery will be allowed to waste away without being used... I tell anyone who does not drive a lot to get a regular car, and it will last trouble free with little use for decades...

I have an 01 Honda Osyssey. It has very low mileage, has cost practically nothing in repairs, and will go another 10 years. When I sell it, it will still have value to anyone who needs a car. An EV is still a specialty car, that you should stay away from....

krush40
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:01 am
Location: Southern California

Re: 2013 with low miles or 2015 with high miles?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:04 pm

By barely used, I just mean relative to the cost/payment. I’ve traditionally racked up miles on my cars for a variety of reasons. Now I have two little kids, and a wife with a brand new Sienna. We take the Sienna everywhere. I do drive my car to work and back 5 days a week. 10 miles each way with about 9.5 of it Rush hours freeway traffic.

There’s a couple 2015 SLs in the $12k range. And some SVs a little cheaper. I’d like the 2015 battery, and won’t get an S due to some feature upgrades.

Where I live we don’t have much range in weather. I sometimes have to run a defroster on the window, but rarely use a heater in the car. AC is used more often though.

I could just keep making payments on my car and eventually it’ll be paid off. But the at the end of the day it’s, just a smaller version of my van. Doesn’t get incredible gas mileage. Doesn’t tow. Doesn’t haul like a truck could etc.

A leaf will cut down the usage of the van on shorter around town stuff, cut my payment/gas/etc, and even if it gets down into the 40 mile range in hopefully another 4-5 years, that still suits my needs, although by then my van will paid off as well and my needs may change anyway.

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”