mitrals
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:03 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jun 2019
Location: Chicago IL

Has anyone seen so much degradation in a month

Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:35 pm

I bought a leaf last month and the soh has dipped 5%. See leaf spy images. Should I get the battery looked at? This is very concerning. I have enabled long life and only charge at night to 80%. My daily commute is only 14 miles.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jK2fTDyqGqaPinXc7
2012 Leaf SL. 9 Bars 50K miles - 06/15/2019 - Daily driver
2018 Honda Clarity Plug in Touring- Bought 04/26/19 - Daily driver

Previous electric cars:
2013 Leaf SV. Bought with 11 bars and 4K miles.
2013 Cmax Energi.
2013 Fusion Energi Titanium.

SageBrush
Posts: 4252
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Has anyone seen so much degradation in a month

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:59 pm

Deleted -- bad post.
Last edited by SageBrush on Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 9384
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Has anyone seen so much degradation in a month

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:09 pm

I agree that it might be a reset as that's a pretty rapid and steady decline.

What if you charge to 100% and don't charge until you're fairly low (e.g. below 25%)? Does that improve the score any?

My 5/2013 built '13 SV is still at around 81.xx to 83.xx%. I haven't seen it at 81.xx% in awhile. I lost my 1st bar in Nov 2017 (https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 15#p511915) with SOH 83% when Leaf Spy didn't render anything past the decimal for that score. I don't know if Leaf Spy back then rounded or truncated the SOH past the decimal point.

My Hx is lower now though. Was at 76.72% last night. In glancing thru my logs, my Hx has been hovering at 75.xx to 76.xx% since beginning of June 2019. I'm now at 65.3K miles.
Last edited by cwerdna on Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4252
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Has anyone seen so much degradation in a month

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:14 pm

Ignore my first post; he is talking about a change from 66 to 64 SOH

:lol: :lol:

OP: ignore it
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Lothsahn
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Has anyone seen so much degradation in a month

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:26 pm

mitrals wrote:I bought a leaf last month and the soh has dipped 5%. See leaf spy images. Should I get the battery looked at? This is very concerning. I have enabled long life and only charge at night to 80%. My daily commute is only 14 miles.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jK2fTDyqGqaPinXc7


What Model year is your Leaf?

The picture you show only shows a 2.8% SOH drop. Small fluctuations are totally normal and not worth worrying about. A 5% drop, however, would be a bit larger. Things that can impact SOH: Changes to charging (using L1 instead of L2 or L3 charging, driving style (local vs highway), etc). You are likely charging and driving the car differently from the previous owner, which could account for a few percent of the SOH.


--This section may no longer be relevant. I posted in response to SageBrush's statement about a BMS reset --
A BMS reset is where the car's computer is tricked into thinking the battery is at full health when the battery is actually worn out. It's a trick some unscrupulous people will use to make a car with a bad battery look like it's 100% healthy.

It would be very strange for someone to do a BMS reset and then let the car get to 67% SOH before selling it. I don't think this is a BMS reset--something else may be going on. I wonder if one or more battery cells has gone bad and is influencing the SOH calculation.
--This section may no longer be relevant. I posted in response to SageBrush's statement about a BMS reset --


Do you have Leafspy? Can you post a picture of the battery cell voltages? It should look like this.
http://www.wind-works.org/cms/uploads/R ... 01.jpg.jpg

If you can do that, can you drive your car to the very low battery warning (VLBW, where the car shows --- miles remaining), and then grab the graph? Be sure to stay close to your house when trying to drain the battery if you've never gone that low before as failing batteries can potentially shut down with little warning. One way to safely drain the battery is to crank the heat to maximum in your driveway until the miles left on the dashboard hits ---.

Once you get the voltage at VLBW, be sure to immediately shut down the car and charge it. You don't want to leave the car at a low battery for very long.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

mitrals
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:03 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jun 2019
Location: Chicago IL

Re: Has anyone seen so much degradation in a month

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:39 pm

First picture: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3A27jN7TYh1xuyHv5

Second picture : https://photos.app.goo.gl/KniaDEHgYoczNAV69

It's a 2012 sl. I checked leaf spy when I bought it and it said 69.8 soh.

Lothsahn: I have been talking to you over private message.
2012 Leaf SL. 9 Bars 50K miles - 06/15/2019 - Daily driver
2018 Honda Clarity Plug in Touring- Bought 04/26/19 - Daily driver

Previous electric cars:
2013 Leaf SV. Bought with 11 bars and 4K miles.
2013 Cmax Energi.
2013 Fusion Energi Titanium.

mitrals
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:03 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jun 2019
Location: Chicago IL

Re: Has anyone seen so much degradation in a month

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:42 pm

Leaf spy a week after I got the car. https://photos.app.goo.gl/W6gEkevWJQboAWhm6
2012 Leaf SL. 9 Bars 50K miles - 06/15/2019 - Daily driver
2018 Honda Clarity Plug in Touring- Bought 04/26/19 - Daily driver

Previous electric cars:
2013 Leaf SV. Bought with 11 bars and 4K miles.
2013 Cmax Energi.
2013 Fusion Energi Titanium.

Lothsahn
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Has anyone seen so much degradation in a month

Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:16 pm

So a week after you got the car, it dropped by about 2%, and it's dropped another 2.7% or so after that. The one thing that's really strange is your car reported only 9 L1/L2 charges in 50k miles. That's... not possible. I wonder if the previous owner only charged the car using the quick charge (QC) port. If so, that would artificially inflate the SOH (and wear the pack out quickly). However, QC's usually show on that screen as well.

You have a 2012 battery pack. The battery packs made before 4/2013 are known to wear out and degrade significantly faster than later model years. Being in Chicago will help as the packs hate heat. My 2011 original battery was at 57% SOH, so your pack is in better shape than mine was. This pack should give you 40-45 miles range in the summer and around 25 miles in freezing temps with the heat on.

I saw the cell voltages picture and it shows that your pack is working fine. To see how the individual cells are faring, you really need to get the car to VLBW (--- on the dash) before taking that exact same screenshot. That said, I'm pretty sure you'll just find that the pack is old and worn out, and that the cells don't balance very well. Unfortunately, other than swapping all the battery cells out, there's not much to improve the situation.

If the car meets your range needs, I expect that the dropping of the SOH is most likely just the car adjusting to your driving and charging habits, and the SOC drop should slow down or stop. If your commute is 14 miles/day, this car should meet your range needs for 3-4 years, way more if you're willing to forgo the heat.

If you start with the car fully charged, and you drive 20 miles with the car, is it at about half battery? If so, I wouldn't worry. SOH is just an estimate--what matters is the range you actually get.

P.S.
1) Use the seat and steering wheel heaters as much as you want. They barely impact range. However, turning the heat on in the cabin will have a huge impact on range. Be happy you have a 2012--my 2011 doesn't have seat or steering wheel heaters.

2) You are using a L1 or L2 charger to charge the car, right? Avoid using the QC port on the car unless you absolutely have to. The QC port will heat up and wear out the battery quickly.

3) Can you update your signature to include the car you drive, area, mileage, etc? You can use my signature as an example.

4) I'd you can, charge the car only to 80% in the summer (You can do 100% in the winter if you need the range). The pack will last longer. You can set a charge timer on a 2012 to automatically stop at 80%. Ping me if you need to know how to do that.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

powersurge
Posts: 1336
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Has anyone seen so much degradation in a month

Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:28 am

If the Original poster bought an original Leaf with 67% SOH, then he must expect that the battery is at the point of decline. It is to be expected...

Possibly, he should be thinking of battery replacement options...

Jerryr
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 8:18 am
Delivery Date: 12 May 2019
Leaf Number: 310009
Location: Bradenton, Florida

Re: Has anyone seen so much degradation in a month

Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:27 am

What is strange is with 50,000 miles LeafSpy shows only 9 L1/L2 charge sessions. Why would that he?


Image
2019 SL Plus 5/19- current
2018 SV w/tech and All Weather pkg 5/18-4/19 (traded)
2015 SL 4/15-5/18 (traded)
2019 Ford F-350 Lariat Ultimate CCSB SRW Diesel
2015 Lexus RX450h
2017 Grand Design RV 337RLS 5th wheel

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”