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redLEAF
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Re: The New Tire Replacement Post

Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:25 pm

Lambtron wrote:
redLEAF wrote:I looked for the most recent post for discussions on replacement tires for our LEAF so will add a new wrinkle here as didn't return any search results for Bridgestone DriveGuard run flats (as well as my own experience once I get these on the car). Here in the Midwest (Chicagoland area) we have fairly poor roads, although now ALL of them seem to be under construction; lots of pot holes to try an avoid. I was all ready to switch my OEM 16's alloys for some quite nice looking 17's that were take offs from an earlier model Juke -- no real issues with the original Ecopia's other than they're completely worn out at 31K miles but that's pretty much expected. The newer Ecopia Plus seemed a good bet but my local tire and maintenance guy gave me some other ideas; both keeping the original aspect ratio for thicker sidewalls and thought I might want to try something that would solve the no-spare issue when the wife drives this car.

For about the same price I'll be trying the Bridgestone DriveGuards using the OEM 16" alloy rims -- these are the latest 'run-flat' tech that will allow you to get 50 miles to have them serviced if you get a puncture; I know, I know; run flats of old were simply terrible, 'hard' tires with very stiff sidewalls that had a bad reputation but these at least (from a few reviews on tire rack) seemed to have improved quite a bit. They give you a full 30 days to try them out and will swap out for others if you're not satisfied so we'll see how these do.

I'll report back once I get these mounted this coming Monday -- I do expect a bit of a mileage hit initially, but expect that to even out a bit over time. We've had lots of rain as of late and no more slipping and sliding around corners with the worn out tires will be a welcome change. I've been averaging about 5.2 to 5.6 miles/kWh during fairly cool temps (no A/C use) so we'll see how that compares with these new run-flats.


I put a set of Bridgestone DriveGuards on this week. I've got them pumped to 40psi. On smooth asphalt they ride smooth but any bumps in the road seem to be amplified greater than the original Ecopias.
My mileage took a hit from 4.5-5.5 (w/o heat) to 3.8-4.0. I also notice my max crawl speed went from 4 MPH to 3 MPH. I'm going to try pumping pressure to 45 to see if the crawl speed increases. That may indicate if better efficiency is possible. (Tire max pressure is 51 psi).


Just as an epilogue to my old post on the DriveGuard's worth mentioning -- after a break-in period of probably 500 to 1000 miles, only very minor difference between when the Ecopias still had decent tread with the miles/kWh -- I put 15K on the DriveGuards (my '12 was traded-in at 46K miles) and the tires still looked almost new; excellent wear versus the much softer Ecopias. My current EV is a VW e-Golf that runs LRR Continental ProContacts (car had only a bit over 1.2K miles so assume these are the OEM's); fine in dry conditions but a bit slick in wet and any snow (if I avoid using any regen settings they seem OK); will see how these wear if I get any significant miles on the car before the Tesla Model 3 shows up.
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Lambtron
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 12:39 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 6977
Location: North Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: The New Tire Replacement Post

Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:42 pm

Lambtron wrote:
redLEAF wrote:I looked for the most recent post for discussions on replacement tires for our LEAF so will add a new wrinkle here as didn't return any search results for Bridgestone DriveGuard run flats (as well as my own experience once I get these on the car). Here in the Midwest (Chicagoland area) we have fairly poor roads, although now ALL of them seem to be under construction; lots of pot holes to try an avoid. I was all ready to switch my OEM 16's alloys for some quite nice looking 17's that were take offs from an earlier model Juke -- no real issues with the original Ecopia's other than they're completely worn out at 31K miles but that's pretty much expected. The newer Ecopia Plus seemed a good bet but my local tire and maintenance guy gave me some other ideas; both keeping the original aspect ratio for thicker sidewalls and thought I might want to try something that would solve the no-spare issue when the wife drives this car.

For about the same price I'll be trying the Bridgestone DriveGuards using the OEM 16" alloy rims -- these are the latest 'run-flat' tech that will allow you to get 50 miles to have them serviced if you get a puncture; I know, I know; run flats of old were simply terrible, 'hard' tires with very stiff sidewalls that had a bad reputation but these at least (from a few reviews on tire rack) seemed to have improved quite a bit. They give you a full 30 days to try them out and will swap out for others if you're not satisfied so we'll see how these do.

I'll report back once I get these mounted this coming Monday -- I do expect a bit of a mileage hit initially, but expect that to even out a bit over time. We've had lots of rain as of late and no more slipping and sliding around corners with the worn out tires will be a welcome change. I've been averaging about 5.2 to 5.6 miles/kWh during fairly cool temps (no A/C use) so we'll see how that compares with these new run-flats.


I put a set of Bridgestone DriveGuards on this week. I've got them pumped to 40psi. On smooth asphalt they ride smooth but any bumps in the road seem to be amplified greater than the original Ecopias.
My mileage took a hit from 4.5-5.5 (w/o heat) to 3.8-4.0. I also notice my max crawl speed went from 4 MPH to 3 MPH. I'm going to try pumping pressure to 45 to see if the crawl speed increases. That may indicate if better efficiency is possible. (Tire max pressure is 51 psi).


I raised the pressure to 44 psi. The crawl increased back to 4 mph but the mileage is still at about 3.9 and bumpy. BTW, the suspension is in good condition with lower control arms changed in Sept. by dealer as well as dealer alignment the day of tire replacement.

powersurge
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Re: The New Tire Replacement Post

Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:26 am

I still think that the Leaf should be viewed as a specialty vehicle, and that you should keep the stock Ecopia tires when you replace the old ones. The Leaf drives fine with the stock tires, and you should not drive an EV as a sports car.

If you wanted, you could go +1 on the Second tire number (instead of 50, go to 55, or 55 and got to 60). I do this with all of my cars.....

That would give you more air between the road and the rim (for a softer ride), and the tire circumference would be a touch bigger, so you would be traveling (just a bit) farther than old tires for the same # of transmission rotations. (technically better gas/ electric mileage)....

VitaminJ
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Re: The New Tire Replacement Post

Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:03 am

Lambtron, have you confirmed your crawl speed using GPS or some other method besides the car's speedo? The speedo is directly tied to tire diameter and going from worn-out tires to new tires, the diameter is almost certainly going to be larger on the new tires. So for the same actual speed, a larger diameter tire will read a lower number on the speedometer compared to a smaller tire. On top of that different manufacturers will measure their tires slightly differently so even though the tire size is the same the actual tire size may be slightly different.

powersurge, no not at all. Going to a larger tire will show a lower number of miles traveled on the odometer of the car, but the actual number of miles driven remains the same (barring any wormholes or other time-space anomalies) just because the numbers you calculate using these numbers have changed for the better, doesn't mean the actual performance of the vehicle has changed. In fact the performance most likely suffers because +1 tires are heavier, reduce the torque transmission to the road requiring more engine torque, and increase your aerodynamic drag. All very minor but true.
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Lambtron
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Re: The New Tire Replacement Post

Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:54 pm

[quote="VitaminJ"]Lambtron, have you confirmed your crawl speed using GPS or some other method besides the car's speedo? The speedo is directly tied to tire diameter and going from worn-out tires to new tires, the diameter is almost certainly going to be larger on the new tires. So for the same actual speed, a larger diameter tire will read a lower number on the speedometer compared to a smaller tire. On top of that different manufacturers will measure their tires slightly differently so even though the tire size is the same the actual tire size may be slightly different.

The car did go back to 4 MPH with the higher pressure. The numbers here are so small that they are inconsequential. This was just an experiment to reduce drag by increasing pressure while keeping me out of my wife's hair. Now I'm going to lower pressures to try to get a softer ride. Isn't winter boredom a hoot?

LeftieBiker
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Re: The New Tire Replacement Post

Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:09 pm

I still think that the Leaf should be viewed as a specialty vehicle, and that you should keep the stock Ecopia tires when you replace the old ones. The Leaf drives fine with the stock tires, and you should not drive an EV as a sports car.


Aside from being pretty needlessly judgemental about driving styles, this isn't great advice technically, because it appears that the "Ecopia" tires installed at the factory are markedly cheaper in quality than the "Ecopia" tires you buy at a tire store. I've suggested the latter be used, but the former are at best mediocre in every area but rolling resistance.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

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Marktm
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Re: The New Tire Replacement Post

Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:52 am

Anyone have experience with the Michelin Defender T+H? Need to replace my 205-55R-16's soon.

I'm partial to Michelin's as I've never had a flat in over 200,000 miles on various cars.
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64chevy
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Re: The New Tire Replacement Post

Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:02 am

I can't speak to the Defenders that would fit on a LEAF, but I had *two* pairs of Defenders go bad on me on two different vehicles. I was a Michelin fan until then. Both tires had developed cracks in less than 2 years. I replaced them with Continental. I'm also using Continentals on the LEAF, and was very very happy with them on all three vehicles (now two vehicles). In particular, I didn't lose very much range (if any) in the LEAF and I have been pretty happy with them in the dry, wet, and snow here in Wisconsin. Same goes for the Contintentals on our minivan (Honda Odyssey).

GerryAZ
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Re: The New Tire Replacement Post

Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:32 am

I have no experience with Defenders, but Michelin car tires are subject to premature sidewall cracking in my hot, dry climate. I liked the Michelin MXM4s that I put on the 2011 to replace the Ecopias, but the Energy Saver A/S tires that came on the 2015 were mediocre (wet traction was particularly bad) and were showing sidewall cracking by the time they were bald at 28k miles in 19 months.

I drive enough miles per month to wear out the stickier tread compound MXM4 Michelins by the time sidewall cracking becomes noticeable, but could not find them in stock. After shopping around, I bought Continental Control Contact Sport A/S tires from Discount Tire. The handling and both wet and dry traction are MUCH better than the Energy Saver Michelins, but I did take a substantial range hit (probably about 15% in freeway driving, but only 5-7% in stop/go city driving). There has been no significant improvement in efficiency in 10k miles, but wear is minimal so they should last quite a while.
Last edited by GerryAZ on Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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drees
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Re: The New Tire Replacement Post

Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:05 am

64chevy wrote:I replaced them with Continental. I'm also using Continentals on the LEAF, and was very very happy with them on all three vehicles (now two vehicles). In particular, I didn't lose very much range (if any) in the LEAF and I have been pretty happy with them in the dry, wet, and snow here in Wisconsin. Same goes for the Contintentals on our minivan (Honda Odyssey).

Not sure which Continentals you got, but I got the Continental PureContact from Discount Tire and I have to say that the efficiency hit is rather large compared to the Road Hugger GT ECOs they replaced - and those weren't nearly as good as the OEM Bridgestone Ecopia EP422s.

They are very smooth and quiet and have good wet traction, but dry traction is mediocre and again, the efficiency hit was very significant. I'm having a hard time breaking 4 mi/kWh with these tires even with efficient driving. Slower speed driving appears to be affected more than higher speed driving, which makes sense since rolling resistance makes up a larger part of overall resistance at lower speeds than higher speeds, and the tread seems to be quite flexy in general. I'm hoping that they get better as they wear in more, but I already have had them for 2 months and 1500 miles and so far there is no huge change.

They do have a max pressure rating of 51 PSI, but I find that anything above 42-44 PSI makes them lose grip significantly easier over rough surfaces and there wasn't any significant change in efficiency.
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