johnrhansen
Posts: 1100
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:23 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 409445
Location: Seattle, WA

Winter is hard on range!

Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:36 am

I'm sure I'm re posting the obvious, but here it goes anyway. Now that is is getting really cold here in Seattle, I can't stand not to have the heat on anymore. It is very expensive! My economy went down from 4.8 miles per KWH to 3.9. I'm charging my car every night now. I'd estimate I only have about 50 miles of usable range per 80 percent charge. It was 75 earlier this year. I think if I had to make my long commute to Everett in this weather, I would have to leave the leaf at home and take my ICE truck. I'd better get busy building my range extender! I'm not trying to troubleshoot anything. I think it's just the way it is. I tried doing the 100 percent charge to balance the battery, but it's still acting the same.
2013 S model with quick charge package.
AV 30 amp level 2 EVSE, Bosch PowerMax 30 Amp EVSE, EVSE upgraded EVSE.

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elmobob
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 7:18 pm
Delivery Date: 26 May 2012
Leaf Number: 020011
Location: Yonkers, NY

Re: Winter is hard on range!

Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:51 am

I'm in NY and although weather has been in the 40's this winter so far I feel your pain. When it gets to the 20's here I want to use my heater too but have to decide between making it sometimes or turning on the heater to feeling nice n warm and risk possibly not making it. What i've noticed is that when cold below 40f the regen is virtually gone :x , regen in city driving can make a big difference specially in nyc stop n go traffic. I hope nissan stops using that delicate lithium manganese chemistry that can't take high current regen when cold. I'm not sure by how much but from what I've read lithium Iron phosphate used in the spark ev can handle it.

johnrhansen
Posts: 1100
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:23 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 409445
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Winter is hard on range!

Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:45 pm

I have yet to see battery temps below 4 bars, as I park in a garage. I haven't experienced any loss of regen. Maybe my battery isn't getting quite as cold as yours has.
2013 S model with quick charge package.
AV 30 amp level 2 EVSE, Bosch PowerMax 30 Amp EVSE, EVSE upgraded EVSE.

essaunders
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 7:20 am
Delivery Date: 20 Jan 2012
Location: southern NH

Re: Winter is hard on range!

Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:43 pm

I've seen a drop from ~5.2mkwh summer commutes to ~3.1 for the last couple of days. Any the winter cold plus snow resistance hasn't shown up yet.

JoelH
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:40 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 003792
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Winter is hard on range!

Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:51 pm

Helps to use the Climate Control timer? Pre-heats the car using EVSE-supplied electrons.
2011 SV, Black, w/QC, Purchased used in Sept 2013
Clipper Creek LCS-25 EVSE

jsongster
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:11 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Sep 2013
Location: MTZ CA

Re: Winter is hard on range!

Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:52 pm

I'm noticing that cold is definitely hard on range...

Question to the group... If one of the effects of a DC Quick Charge is to heat up the battery... would it make sense to take a car to a DC QC every morning on cold mornings when you need the range and do your charging there...

Would we save enough range because we didn't need the battery heaters?
How long would the pack stay warm from the DC QC...

One of the design dilemmas I'm sure... making the pack dissipate heat in Tucson AZ... and retain enough heat in Vancouver B.C. to keep most of its range.
Wanted an EV forever. Now driving a 2013 LEAF SL. The car keeps living up to the promise, and CHAdeMO chargers keep extending my range!
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dgpcolorado
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:56 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Dec 2011
Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: Winter is hard on range!

Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:11 pm

johnrhansen wrote:I have yet to see battery temps below 4 bars, as I park in a garage. I haven't experienced any loss of regen. Maybe my battery isn't getting quite as cold as yours has.
I'm also getting reduced regen at battery temperatures less than 12ºC. Down one bubble at slow speeds and down two bubbles at highway speeds. It is due to the P3227 software update. Perhaps elmobob has also had the update? The regen in cool weather problem doesn't seem to affect the 2013 models. As I've suggested in another thread, the lack of regen might just have been a software flub by Nissan.

Whatever the cause it is 1) very real and 2) quite annoying, given the lack of regen 2011/2012 models had to begin with.

At cold temperatures, below ~10ºF, regen was pretty much gone before the software update. I would guess that the threshold temperature for little to no regen is higher now, but I haven't had the chance to test it yet.
Blue 2012 SV Dec 2011 to Feb 2016
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ObjetDart
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:15 am
Delivery Date: 12 Jul 2013
Leaf Number: 409649
Location: Eugene, OR

Re: Winter is hard on range!

Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:29 pm

Funny, I was considering making a similar post here this morning. We're getting the same cold snap down here as you are up there (it got down to 25 last night which is quite cold for this area.) I do a 52 mile round trip drive every week on Wednesday evenings. Always charge it up to 100% beforehand. I usually get back with about 20% left, but last night the same trip drained the battery all the way down to 9%. It is a hilly drive mostly on 55mph roads.

Not sure if it's the cabin heat (I usually just leave it on and set to 70) or a cold battery, or both. Leaf Spy says the battery temps are in the mid 50s which are the lowest I've seen since I got the car.
2013 SV Metallic Slate w/ quick charge package

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9397
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Winter is hard on range!

Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:32 pm

To the original Poster: which model/year have you got? My SV's heatpump is keeping the car nice and warm, and by switching to mostly Eco mode and driving a little slower, I've only dropped from 4.4 to 4.3 MPK - with snow tires. That's driving in temps ranging from mid twenties (F) to about 50.
Last edited by LeftieBiker on Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Winter is hard on range!

Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:49 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:To the original Poster: which model/year have you got? My SV's heatpump is keeping the car nice and warn
Yes, for both johnrhansen and ObjetDart, we need to know which model you have. Please put that in your profile -> signature. Based on Leaf Number you both have 2013's but the heater in the S model is very different from, and much less efficient than, the heater in the SV and SL.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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