TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Tire Registration

Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:55 am

Bought new tires.
TPMS was previously registered.
Told Costco to put wheels back in same place, but I don't think they did.

Went back and wanted them to do the LEAF Spy Pro tire registration pressures.
They instead used their OBDII tire registration device.

Does that work?

Was the following in LEAF Spy Pro thread:
Turbo3 wrote:Let me try this again. The Leaf has no ECU that can SEND commands to the TPMS units in the wheels. Note the use of the word SEND in that sentence.
...
So yes there is an ECU that receives the stream of data from the TPMS units when the TPMS units in the wheel decide to transmit data. The ECU is the Body Control Module (BCM) and is the ECU that LeafSpy requests the tire pressures from that are shown on screen 4.

The BCM has a single antenna that receives data from the wireless key and the TPMS units in each wheel.

The Consult-III plus has no capability to wake up any of the TPMS units in the wheels. When you do a tire registration from the Consult-III plus you must drive the Leaf to wake up the TPMS units in each wheel so they can send and the Leaf BCM ECU can receive that data.
...


So if Costco did this right, they had to drive the vehicle and then plug the OBDII tire registration device in?
Or do some OBDII tire registration devices have the ability to wake up the TPMS sensors without driving the vehicle first?

I doubt they drove it first.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1479
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Tire Registration

Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:03 am

There are TPMS registration devices you hold near each sensor one at a time after putting the system in learn mode through the OBDII port. The registration device causes the sensor it is near to transmit without spinning the wheel. As Turbo3 said in the Leaf Spy thread, the sensors do not receive wake up commands from the car--they automatically transmit when they see rapid pressure change and periodically (rate depends upon manufacturer).

For example, the sensors in my SUV transmit once per hour when the wheels are not spinning and once per minute when moving above 25 mi/hr. They also transmit when they see sudden pressure loss. This means the four pressures displayed on the overhead console are accurate as soon as I start the car (unlike Leaf which must be driven before pressures update and requires external device to see the pressures). I can also put the system in learn mode from the overhead console and place a donut magnet around each valve stem in sequence to update the sensor positions after rotating tires. My experience has been that most tire shops neglect to update the sensor positions after replacing or rotating tires so I make it a habit to check lug nut torques and update the sensor positions when I get home.

Gerry
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

lorenfb
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Tire Registration

Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:58 am

I have and use the Autel 401 TPM diagnostic tool on various domestic and european vehicles;
http://www.amazon.com/Autel-Pressure-Diagnostic-MaxiTPMS-TS401/dp/B00KVCS4AA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1437323974&sr=8-2&keywords=Autel+Tire+Pressure

The tool will wake-up most all TPM sensors and display their IDs and the tire's pressure
once the vehicle type is selected. Some TPM sensors require that the tire pressure be
reduced to wake-up the sensor. The tool's major benefit results from being able to determine
whether there's a bad newly installed sensor that will prevent the TPM ECU from completing
the registration process on some vehicles, e.g. Porsche. I've used this tool on my Leaf and it
easily wakes-up each sensor when the tool is close to the sensor.

Bought new tires.
TPMS was previously registered.
Told Costco to put wheels back in same place, but I don't think they did.

Went back and wanted them to do the LEAF Spy Pro tire registration pressures.
They instead used their OBDII tire registration device.


So Tim, did Costco's tool complete the registration? Did you do a before and after test with
LeafSpy to determine if Costco's use of their tool was effective? If so, that indicates that the
Leaf's TPM ECU (in the BCM) can be commanded via the OBDII port to enter the registration
process, which possibly implies too that the TPM ECU can requested to provide the tire pressures.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1479
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Tire Registration

Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:54 am

The Autel 401 tool you referenced wakes up the sensor that it is close to. As Turbo3 noted in the Leaf Spy thread, there is no way to wake up the sensors through the OBDII port. Therefore, Leaf Spy displaying the pressures continuously has no impact on sensor battery life. The sensors should last several years unless they are damaged by running on a flat tire or by improper mounting/dismounting of a tire from the wheel.

Gerry
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Tire Registration

Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:27 am

lorenfb wrote:...
So Tim, did Costco's tool complete the registration? Did you do a before and after test with
LeafSpy to determine if Costco's use of their tool was effective? ...

Thanks for the info on the Autel 401 tool.

My guess is they used that or some other similar tool that had the ability to wake up the sensor with close proximity.
I was busy and doing other shopping and didn't watch them do it or find out which tool.

I haven't validated the registration.
Costco does Nitrogen.
I wanted them to put in 46 psig, 2 psig over max cold tirewall rating on Ecopia EP422+.
So I could let pressure out and equalize next morning when cold.
But they only with immense reluctance agreed to put in 44.
Sensors show between 42.75 and 43.5.
They're pretty close to the 43 I wanted.
If the cold readings today are still OK I am going to assume they did the registration as I don't want to lower pressure doing testing.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

lorenfb
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Tire Registration

Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:13 pm

GerryAZ wrote:The Autel 401 tool you referenced wakes up the sensor that it is close to.


I didn't state otherwise.

GerryAZ wrote:As Turbo3 noted in the Leaf Spy thread, there is no way to wake up the sensors through the OBDII port. Therefore, Leaf Spy displaying the pressures continuously has no impact on sensor battery life.


You know this as fact, e.g. having all the OP codes for the TPM ECU (BCM ECU), right?

GerryAZ wrote:The sensors should last several years unless they are damaged by running on a flat tire or by improper mounting/dismounting of a tire from the wheel.


Actually, most OEMs indicate that the typical TPM sensor's battery should last 7 years.

lorenfb
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Tire Registration

Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:22 pm

TimLee wrote:
lorenfb wrote:...
So Tim, did Costco's tool complete the registration? Did you do a before and after test with
LeafSpy to determine if Costco's use of their tool was effective? ...

Thanks for the info on the Autel 401 tool.

My guess is they used that or some other similar tool that had the ability to wake up the sensor with close proximity.
I was busy and doing other shopping and didn't watch them do it or find out which tool.

I haven't validated the registration.
Costco does Nitrogen.
I wanted them to put in 46 psig, 2 psig over max cold tirewall rating on Ecopia EP422+.
So I could let pressure out and equalize next morning when cold.
But they only with immense reluctance agreed to put in 44.
Sensors show between 42.75 and 43.5.
They're pretty close to the 43 I wanted.
If the cold readings today are still OK I am going to assume they did the registration as I don't want to lower pressure doing testing.


Since all the TPM sensor IDs were known by TPM ECU, the normal registration process as with new sensors wasn't necessary.
Most likely Costco's use of their OBDII tool wasn't necessary and the Leaf system would have identified the locations within
a short driving distance. So we really don't know for sure whether the Costco tool actually communicated and facilitated
the location process.

TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Tire Registration

Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:04 pm

lorenfb wrote:Since all the TPM sensor IDs were known by TPM ECU, the normal registration process as with new sensors wasn't necessary.
Most likely Costco's use of their OBDII tool wasn't necessary and the Leaf system would have identified the locations within
a short driving distance. So we really don't know for sure whether the Costco tool actually communicated and facilitated
the location process.

Only if they mounted the wheels back in the original locations.

The cold pressures are low like I thought they would be.
Around 41 psig.
Not too bad, but lower than I was planning.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

lorenfb
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Tire Registration

Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:30 pm

TimLee wrote:Only if they mounted the wheels back in the original locations.


The point was that since the IDs were known, i.e. not like for a new sensor, all that was needed was to have the
TPM ECU determine the locations. That less involved than having to learn the IDs too as in a total learning process
with new sensors.

Turbo3
Gold Member
Posts: 1843
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:34 pm
Delivery Date: 12 May 2011
Leaf Number: 002191
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Tire Registration

Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:17 pm

TimLee's 2011 Leaf has no ability to learn the new tire locations. It will just assume they have not changed. (Check the service manual if you don't believe me.)

Costco would need to have a SIGNAL TECH II TOOL (J-50190) to do a tire registration without a Consult-III Plus. That tool can wake up a TPMS when held very close to it and can read the TPMS IDs and then be plugged into the OBDII port to transfer the values to the BCM ECU or in this case update their location. But only the 2013 manual I have shows this procedure so it might not work on the older 2011 Leaf. Nissan made a lot of code changes with the 2013 model.

They run about $1300 to $1600 so are not cheap.

Learning the IDs is easy if you can wake up the TPMS units. The Leaf just needs to listen for them. The hard part is knowing where the IDs are located on the Leaf. Putting a different pressure in each tire is one simple way Nissan uses. Waking each one up in sequence is another and reading each one with an external tool is a third.

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