Cost to charge?
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mynameisjim
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Multiply your local rate times 25-30 ish kilowatt hours. In my area I estimate a dollar off peak, 3 dollars peak
gudy
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So far, based on carwings data, I've spent $6 for driving 400 miles 
haha 200mpg
haha 200mpg Blows the EPA's 99 mpg rating away. Based on off peak rates of 4.5 cents per KWH here in Oregon I expect a full charge to cost a little over a dollar and I expect I'll have to charge every 3 days since I only drive 15 miles a day and do 98% of my driving on secondary city roads and streets at speeds of 35 to 45 mph. This is amazingly cheap driving!gudy said:So far, based on carwings data, I've spent $6 for driving 400 miles
LEAFfan
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Don said:
First of all, most people won't be charging from empty, but around half and if you don't need the 100 mile or so range, charging to 80% will make your battery pack last a lot longer. 90% of people drive less than 40 miles a day. So say you charge for about 3 hours (@240V/80%) which would be about 10kwh @ .07 (our off-peak rate) comes to about 70 cents for around 50 miles or $1.40/100 miles if you drive mostly in the city and use Eco mode. However, many of us are planning on using our PVs to charge our LEAFs, which should make driving on e-fuel virtually free. In my case, I plan on charging during the day at off-peak times (any time except 3-6PM weekdays) when our meter will be running backwards. :mrgreen:
LEAFer
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I made that mistake once (or a few more times), too. The MPG or the MPGe is not based on $ cost. It's based on energy. This is necessary for consistency. So one can not compare the EPA efficiency numbers (99 MPGe) to the miles-per-dollar equivalent (200 miles per $3 gallon of gas). Although, Nissan has early on already forged ahead with that innovative way of thinking: Miles/$.1953austin said:Blows the EPA's 99 mpg rating away. Based on off peak rates of 4.5 cents per KWH here in Oregon I expect a full charge to cost a little over a dollar and I expect I'll have to charge every 3 days since I only drive 15 miles a day and do 98% of my driving on secondary city roads and streets at speeds of 35 to 45 mph. This is amazingly cheap driving!gudy said:So far, based on carwings data, I've spent $6 for driving 400 miles
LakeLeaf
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So, 8 years from now when the battery capacity is down to 60% of it's new capacity, will it cost only 60% to charge - or do you have to put more power into the battery in order to get just that 60%?
TRONZ
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gudy said:So far, based on carwings data, I've spent $6 for driving 400 miles
NICE! Thats 1.5 cents per mile! Much better than Nissans claim of 2.6 cents per mile. I am sure it will vary in the coming months but you are off to a very good start! I really do like the Dollar per Mile approach to explain EV's because it is an objective record of what has already happened. Not opinions or speculation! When you have to convert everything into "Oil Speak" everything becomes vague and variable. Gudy, keep us updated on the total costs/mile you are seeing. Over time I think it will become very interesting!
TimeHorse
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+1 on cost per mile since for a town / commuting car, I know my commute length so what I want is a number that I can multiply to get my cost. miles per cost is useful if you only have a dollar and want to know how far you can go, which I think most of us will never experience.
DeaneG
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TimeHorse said:
"Cost per mile" can vary literally 10 to 1 around the country and even conceivably that much between me and my nextdoor neighbor. It's impossible to calculate a figure that works for everyone. You'll have to look at your present electricity bill and understand it - for a rough measure, take your cost per "last kilowatt-hour" (or your cost if you burned one more kWh above what you are burning now), and divide it by four.
garygid
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When you charge the LEAF you usually (with rare exceptions) do not even know how much your PU will charge you for the kWhs of electricity.
It is a commodity that you use almost blindly, and get billed later at rates that actually change, and you "must" pay the bill.
It is a commodity that you use almost blindly, and get billed later at rates that actually change, and you "must" pay the bill.
TimeHorse
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As for ¢/mi, I just take the utility rate, the percent battery usage and distance I traveled:
rate-in-cents-per-kWh * 24kWh * percent-usage / distance-in-miles
And as for rate: it doesn't change very often in the Commonwealth of Virginia because to change it a requires a public hearing period and review by the State Corporation Commission. It won't change overnight, though if you don't pay attention to these things it could come as a shock.
rate-in-cents-per-kWh * 24kWh * percent-usage / distance-in-miles
And as for rate: it doesn't change very often in the Commonwealth of Virginia because to change it a requires a public hearing period and review by the State Corporation Commission. It won't change overnight, though if you don't pay attention to these things it could come as a shock.
DeaneG
Well-known member
TimeHorse said:
Plus five or ten percent for AC-to-battery charging efficiency. Most people in this forum forget that the car measures its consumption as out-of-battery DC kW, but we have to pay for into-battery AC kWh, which is somewhat more.
LEAFer
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Not necessarily unless that's written somewhere. But it's good to point out the difference for us early adopters. I would think that in the CarWings module Nissan has thought of the AC/DC difference.DeaneG said:
( On a Tesla Roadster, while much of the useful energy info that is displayed is based on battery DC usage, the charging events are properly recording the AC kWh (from the wall) use. (In early models of the car it took several firmware updates to get to that point and to be accurate.) )
garygid
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Here, the PU's rate for "cost of electricty" component of the monthly billing can change from month to month.
Also, depending upon how much you use during the month, and when, you get charged different rates for your "edies" (kWh). The "total rate" can vary from about 7¢ to 55¢ per kWh, ... quite a range!
Yes, at 55¢, gasoline is a lot less expensive.
Also, depending upon how much you use during the month, and when, you get charged different rates for your "edies" (kWh). The "total rate" can vary from about 7¢ to 55¢ per kWh, ... quite a range!
Yes, at 55¢, gasoline is a lot less expensive.
TimeHorse
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DeaneG said:
I agree with the 5% - 10% adjustment since there will always be energy lost in the charger conversion from AC to DC. How much depends on the car's internal charger.
As for Dominion Virginia Power rates, they're actually quite simple: below 800kWh is one rate, anything above is another; one rate for winter, another for the 4 months of summer. That's about it, plus base account fee.
DeaneG
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LEAFer said:
Can you tell us the typical charging and battery efficiency figure for the Tesla? (DC kWh out of battery / AC kWh into car). I am guessing it would be about 0.9 .
LEAFer
Well-known member
No, it's "worse" than that. Mainly due to the liquid cooled battery pack. There is a very narrow ambient temperature range when the liquid cooling or heating does not kick in. The pack is managed very conservatively for safety & longer life at the expense of DC/AC kWh efficiency. I would guesstimate the ratio to be 0.8 on "average". Under extended hot conditions (95F+) and/or aggressive driving (requiring more cooling) possibly as low as 0.75. Driven "lightly" in very temperate climates, maybe 0.85. (Much more info at teslamotorsclub.com.)DeaneG said:
Of course, "narrow" (ambient temp range) is subjective; think SanDiegan range. I would guess 30-70F is the best range to reduce the overhead from Tesla's liquid cooled pack. Below that adds heating. Cooling can happen inside this range as well due to aggressive driving; that includes cooling while driving and when charging shortly after.
The longer you charge (i.e. starting with a near-empty pack) the better the ratio gets, because much of the overhead is "front-loaded". That is, the initial AC energy goes to heating or cooling the pack, then to charging it. Doing a lot of short charging episodes in 95F+ will lower the ratio. If you live in cold central/eastern Canada with an unheated garage your Roadster will spend a lot of AC kWhs every winter night to heat the pack before charging it. ( A number of Canadian owners have recently reported at teslamotorsclub.com.)
For the LEAF ... we'll have to wait and see. Some components are liquid cooled, but we do not yet have a good grasp on the effect. But I am willing to bet the LEAFs ratio is better than Tesla's by at least 0.05.
P.S.: When I estimate an "average" 0.8 ratio above I am taking into account all of those real-world "normal" things that happen over a period of time (months) for someone that does not take great pains to maximize efficiency. It does not reflect the theoretical much higher ratio.
LEAFfan
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garygid said:
Not here...ours is between .07-.08/kwh off-peak, but with the PVs, it should be virtually free (not counting the four-five yr. payoff of the system).
leafme
Well-known member
LakeLeaf said:
I believe when the battery capacity is diminished it will simply act like a smaller battery but this is a good one to as Nissan about. I'm thinking it will say it is full after stuffing in only the 60% (in your example). I'd like to think so anyway. So you 'd just get less range and it would proportionately cost less to charge it since it's a "smaller' Battery.
Can anyone else chime in here?
Malcolm