LeafMuranoDriver
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 8:15 am
Delivery Date: 01 May 2015
Leaf Number: 323189
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:51 am

ahagge - How many miles per month are you driving? From the charts, it looks around 4,000 to 6,000 per month.

I think the high mileage is what is keeping the stats up. Once you start driving very little, they seem to drop quite rapidly, then level out.
2015 Leaf S w/ QC
Mfg: Jan. '15 // Pur: May '15
Best: 6/27/15 - 1,416 Miles - 292 GIDs - 63.11 Ahr - 22.6 kWh - 100% SOH - 97.2% Hx - 4 QC, 29 L2
Worst: 12/12/15 - 4,616 Miles - 259 GIDs - 55.02 Ahr - 20.1 kWh - 99% SOH - 82.8% Hx - 17 QC, 96 L2

Aussie
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Dallas

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:50 pm

The original battery on my 2011 SL was replaced at the start of March this year. The replacement Lizard stats have recently been dropping like a stone. Capacity is now at 61.66AHr, SOH = 96% and Hx = 92.48. As others have mentioned, capacity was glued at 66.141 for almost 5 months (until mid July) and then has dropped far too quickly for my liking. Since battery replacement I have done just over 5000 miles of mostly day-to-day commuting.

I live in Dallas, TX, so we do get long, hot summers. The car is always parked in a garage. During the week I park on an upper level in the morning (to get the breeze whilst the temp is <90F), then move to the basement at lunchtime (where it tends to be a little cooler). Overnight it is parked in a basement and charged to 80% most days, and rarely to 100%. Observed pack temps only exceeded 100F a few times over summer, even with the hot weather we had.

Are these values consistent with those seen by others on the forum? It all seems a little concerning and isn't boding well for pack longevity.

User avatar
Stanton
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1922
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:55 pm

Aussie wrote:Are these values consistent with those seen by others on the forum? It all seems a little concerning and isn't boding well for pack longevity.


Almost exactly...and I live in Dallas as well!
The only difference is my (new) lizard pack is a few months older (with a few more miles).
The summer obviously had a big impact (no surprise). What remains to be seen is if we re-gain any of those lost AHr over the winter (with some 100% charges); I have been charging to 80% more than usual (since we now have more range), and the theory is some top-end balancing (and driving?) will restore some capacity.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

Valdemar
Posts: 2379
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:57 pm

I'm doing better in LA, March 2016 replacement, about 12k miles since, Ahr=64 SOH=99% Hx=96.19%
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
60.5AHr, SOH 94%, 105k miles
9kW Solar

ahagge
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:38 am
Delivery Date: 02 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5175
Location: Northridge, CA

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:19 am

LeafMuranoDriver wrote:ahagge - How many miles per month are you driving? From the charts, it looks around 4,000 to 6,000 per month.

I think the high mileage is what is keeping the stats up. Once you start driving very little, they seem to drop quite rapidly, then level out.
Sorry for the delayed response, I'm not on as frequently these days.

To answer your question, I'm putting about 16,000 miles/year on the vehicle. At least 1,000 miles per month, every month (but no more than about 1,500 and certainly not in the 4k-6k range!).

FYI, here's the graph, updated through 10/28/16:

Image

What I find interesting (and disheartening) now is that even though the weather has cooled significantly, the battery is losing capacity at an increased rate.

Sigh.
Ocean Blue SL-e
Per LEAF Spy as of 03/16/17: 12 bars, 238 GIDs, 56.3 AHr on new (04/30/15) Lizard battery
Orig. battery lost 4th bar at 177 GIDs, 43.19 AHr, 44.74 Hx, 65% SOH after 45 months

Reddy
Posts: 1379
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:40 pm

^ Another set of data showing zero degradation for the first few months, more evidence that the "Lizard Pack" is actually more than 24 KWh. My guess is that these are 30 KWh packs that didn't pass QC with enough capacity, hence sold as 24 KWh.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 47.45 AHr; 39,500 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

Valdemar
Posts: 2379
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:12 pm

Reddy wrote:My guess is that these are 30 KWh packs that didn't pass QC with enough capacity, hence sold as 24 KWh.


Highly unlikely, especially for this particular graph. There were no 30 kWh packs in April 2015, at least not in production.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
60.5AHr, SOH 94%, 105k miles
9kW Solar

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11792
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:25 am

Reddy wrote:^ Another set of data showing zero degradation for the first few months, more evidence that the "Lizard Pack" is actually more than 24 KWh. My guess is that these are 30 KWh packs that didn't pass QC with enough capacity, hence sold as 24 KWh.


cant be done. completely different in size, configuration, hookups, etc. Nissan told us that the battery pack was in a constant state of improvement (or at least that is their goal) looking for a balance between robustness, power and durability. So the thought that a 2015 pack would be the same as the original 2015 is not even in the ballpark. All the packs 2013 and up have been constantly tweaked due to the obvious issues the 2011 pack had.

the tweaking includes the charge profiles, power profiles, regen, etc. everything was looked at.

Just looking at the GID progression of 281 or 2011's and 12's to 284 for 2013's and 14's to 292 for 15's should be enough of a clue. Now does this mean the pack is larger?

that is part of it but other changes also contributed
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reddy
Posts: 1379
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:47 pm

^^^ Hmmm, I forgot about that. Would it be possible that "cells" that didn't have enough capacity for the 30 KWh pack could have been combined together into 24 KWh "packs" thereby having just a bit extra? Well, I guess this proves that I don't know much about how these things are put together.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 47.45 AHr; 39,500 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11792
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:22 am

Reddy wrote:^^^ Hmmm, I forgot about that. Would it be possible that "cells" that didn't have enough capacity for the 30 KWh pack could have been combined together into 24 KWh "packs" thereby having just a bit extra? Well, I guess this proves that I don't know much about how these things are put together.


no. they are not like processors that are built for tier 1 speed then tested and rated after completion.

Cells are built in layers. they have basically a sandwich consisting of the "positive side, electrolyte and a negative side. there are SEVERAL layers put together to make a cell. So each battery pack is very much a custom job.

contrast this to Tesla who uses "flashlight" cells where they vary the pack by changing the number of cells. they only need to maintain a multiple of the cell numbers to match voltage and power guidelines.

now don't rail me on the Tesla comment. they used to use those types of cells. I don't know what they use anymore...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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