lorenfb
Posts: 1845
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:28 pm

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:Is there really any difference between the 2015 Lizard battery and the late 2013/2014 batteries? My '13 Leaf at 62K has 50 Ahrs remaining.
Which isn't all that great, but isn't totally depressing. Others with the same year as mine, indicate even better remaining capacities,
e.g. Dave with his previous 2013 Leaf.

Too much overlap amongst the anecdotes to say.

My 10/2013 LEAF has ~ 58 Ahr remaining but it spent the first 3 years in the Cupertino area and now lives a very pampered life in Colorado where the annual average battery temperature is 55F and peak battery temperatures are in the 80s F


You're lucky. Like my battery, likely to be one of the better ones (late '13). Here near the coast, have similar weather except when
visiting customers east of here (110F). Given your expressed negativity toward Nissan and their batteries, I think based on the BEV
knowledge you've acquired since your Leaf purchase, you'd still have made the same '13 Leaf purchase, right? Surely you feel that your
Leaf ROI will be positive over time.
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 70K miles, 49 Ahrs, 5.1 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

SageBrush
Posts: 2847
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:14 pm

lorenfb wrote:Given your expressed negativity toward Nissan and their batteries, I think based on the BEV
knowledge you've acquired since your Leaf purchase, you'd still have made the same '13 Leaf purchase, right? Surely you feel that your
Leaf ROI will be positive over time.

I have explained this before. Don't you read every one of my posts !?

Our LEAF purchase is likely to be a fantastic value and experience. It also has a laundry list of caveats that make my LEAF far from anything approaching a normal ownership experience.

1. I paid $7,000 net after tax credits, excluding Colorado TT&L
2. I found a dealership willing to let me choose the car in his inventory with the best LeafSpy results and I did not have to worry about a reset
3. The car is never asked to go further than 45 miles between charges (and that has been voluntary for all but 3 trips in 15 months), and typical use is 10-15 miles a day. We also have another car without range limitations.
4. I baby, baby, baby the car. Anything you can think of to prolong battery life, I do it. And more. For one example, since coming into ownership of the car, it has never been parked on hot, sun exposed asphalt in the summer. We find a shaded space and walk to our destination.
5. I live in a cool climate
6. I don't have any concerns about being a victim of a rapacious and/or ignorant dealership or god-awful Corporate Nissan. If push comes to shove the car goes to the junkyard. It was cheap enough that every day it continues to fulfill its assigned tasks is gravy.

So you see, I was able to buy my proven low degradation LEAF for a song, and she lives the life of a pampered princess. Within the constraints of a *very* sheltered life, our LEAF does great, the monthly TCO is pennies, and the acquisition cost was almost ridiculous.

OF COURSE I am delighted with our LEAF. It fills a niche need with aplomb. Now ask me how I would feel if had acted on another impulse at the time: Buying a $25k 30 kWh LEAF for my 90 mile work commute, only to find out that range had degraded too much in 24 months to keep using the car for that purpose; and moreover that it had depreciated some $15k in the meantime. My negative impression of the LEAF has nothing to do with my anecdotal, unusual experience, but the likelihood that a high fraction of buyers will face the scenario (or one similar) I avoided by a hair and NIssan Corporate will tell any caller to go jump.

A LEAF bought or leased without *huge* discounts off MSRP is horrible value because of the inability of the battery to provide more than a few years of service at anything approaching new car range unless the car lives in a cold climate. I know it; you know it; and potential buyers who come to this website should come away so informed. In summary, the battery sucks and Nissan corporate is below contempt but those things may not matter and the LEAF may be the car for you if it is cheap enough and demands on the car are within its limited abilities.
Last edited by SageBrush on Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

goldbrick
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:54 pm

There are a lot of things any new EV buyer needs to be aware of. For Leaf buyers, the battery degradation is certainly top of the list. For me, the car will be just as useful when the 30kWh battery reaches warranty replacement time as it is today at 4.5k miles. If I had paid retail (I didn't) or if I needed full capacity (I don't) I would be looking to pass the car on. As it is, I could easily sell the car today for a several thousand $ profit and buy something else but I like it and it will work for me as long as I want. So why bother. As someone said in another thread, it is basically a souped-up golf cart but for around town or around the local area - it's perfect. That's also the experience and attitude of the other 8 or 9 Leaf owners at my work site (of about 200) so there are plenty of satisfied owners out there.

But yeah, if you expect to use the full range for 8 years, you will be sorely disappointed. Sadly, I doubt there are few if any car salescritters in the country that will explain that to a prospective buyer. Often probably, because they just don't know.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9611
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:31 pm

But yeah, if you expect to use the full range for 8 years, you will be sorely disappointed.


If the 40kwh pack is just "no worse" then the 30kwh pack (and it may well be worse, with more energy density and less cooling) then it won't deliver the "full range" for three years, much less eight. Whenever a leased car can't deliver like-new or nearly-new performance for the life of a three year lease, it's a bad deal for anyone who needs that performance. I only need 100/70 miles of Summer/Winter range, and I'm still worried about leasing one.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

goldbrick
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:22 pm

If you're still thinking of a used 2015 or something, my local dealer has quite a few. I could LeafSpy them (non-pro at the moment...) if you are interested. https://www.bouldernissan.com/VehicleSe ... model=LEAF

although
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:40 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jun 2015

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:01 pm

Valdemar wrote:
although wrote:It finally happened. I lost the first bar on my 2015 Lizard battery.

49,500 miles, 2 years and 10 months old.

I'm not entirely unhappy with that. It can still do all the things that I need it to do, and will likely be able to do so with a couple more lost bars.

mike


Where are you located?


Sorry, I don't check in very often... I'm in east Tennessee. The winters aren't too awful cold. The summers can get pretty hot, and I parked in an asphalt parking lot in direct sun all day 5-days a week. The car lives outside. I don't have a garage. But, there is an aluminum shade thing that I park the car under at the house.

It's funny, I lost the first bar, but it hasn't really affected my range... It still shows 12 bars of charge when it's full, and I'm still getting about 7 miles per bar as I drive... It's just the top little thin capacity bar that has disappeared. I suppose that I'll see a slow reduction in range over time, but so far it's been rather anti-climactic.

mike

opencar
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:31 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jun 2011
Location: San Diego Coastal

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:21 am

My sig has a yearly update of my Lizard Pack for my 2011. 50K mi on the original battery and so far another ~30K on the Lizard in San Diego.
1st bar- 22K, 27mo, Ah=55.29
2nd- 33K, 37mo, Ah=51.54
3rd- 41K, 46mo, Ah=47.47
4th- 49K, 53mo, Ah=43.28
Warranty Lizard- 50K, Oct'15
Jun'16- 56K, Ah=66.14
Aug'17- 70K, 22mo, Ah=59.9
Aug'18- 79K, 36mo, Ah=56.4

User avatar
Stanton
Posts: 2107
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:53 am

opencar wrote:My sig has a yearly update of my Lizard Pack for my 2011. 50K mi on the original battery and so far another ~30K on the Lizard in San Diego.


Looks like your "lizard" battery is improving upon the original by a slightly better margin than mine, which makes sense given I'm in a slightly warmer climate. Looks like I'm tracking about 3 AHr behind you (I'm @53 AHr and 1BL)...with a few less months on the clock. It also looks like you lost your (original battery) first bar around 22k miles whereas this one has gone beyond that; similarly, I lost my (original battery) first bar around 20k miles whereas this one took until 23k miles.
Bottom line: both "lizard" batteries are doing better than the original battery pack!
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

Valdemar
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:47 am

I'm 50k on the replacement pack installed March 2016, 54.77 AHr, 85.85% SOH, 75.81 Hx, still all 12 bars. Some range loss consistent with the instrumentation readings. Overall I'm pleased with the improvement over the original pack. The car spends most of its time in Los Angeles non-coastal climate.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
53.92AHr, SOH 84.5%, 140k miles

9kW Solar

Valdemar
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:14 pm

The 12th bar finally went, it lasted a bit over 50k miles and 29 months after the battery was swapped in March 2016. What is the current thinking, is the Lizard degradation curve less steep overall or the perceived slower initial degradation rate is simply due to a larger top-end buffer and once that's gone it is more or less the same downhill ride as the original pack? Given I observed almost no degradation during the first 6 months on the new battery I tend to think it is the latter.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
53.92AHr, SOH 84.5%, 140k miles

9kW Solar

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