Would an 11 bar 2012 Leaf do 35 miles in Minnesota winter?

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rcm4453

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
231
Location
Wayzata, MN
Would a 2012 SL Leaf missing 1 bar still be able to do 35 miles on a full charge in winter here in Minnesota with the heat on? I'm seeing a lot of 2012s for really good prices online but most are missing 1 or 2 capacity bars. I don't want to spend more then $8k so this pretty much limits me to 2012s. As long as I can do 35 miles in winter I don't care if it's missing 1 or 2 bars.
 
There are variables to consider, like "how much heat?" and "how fast?" Based on what I've seen and what I know about how my heatpump-equipped 2013 SV does in near zero (F) temps where the heat pump isn't helping, I'd say it would range from "Sure, no problem" in mild temps, to "Hey, where did the range estimate go???" in frigid temps. There are ways to insulate the heating system, and if you could preheat the car on 240 volts and then rely as much on the seat and steering wheel heaters as on the cabin heater, you could probably manage. You would have to adjust your speed downward with the temps, though.
 
Well I also have a 2011 Volt and I can usually get 25 miles on a frigid day in winter with the heat on going between 65 - 70mph on the freeway. I do head out of a heated garage every day so I don't have to use as much heat on the way to work. The car would sit out in the cold for 9 hours a day though while at work. No where to plug in either. I figured if I can get 25 miles out of 10KW (which is all the Volt let's me use) I would assume I could do the whole 35 miles on a Leaf's pack even with 1 or 2 bars gone. I don't know though they are 2 totally different cars.
 
rcm4453 said:
Well I also have a 2011 Volt and I can usually get 25 miles on a frigid day in winter with the heat on going between 65 - 70mph on the freeway. I do head out of a heated garage every day so I don't have to use as much heat on the way to work. The car would sit out in the cold for 9 hours a day though while at work. No where to plug in either. I figured if I can get 25 miles out of 10KW (which is all the Volt let's me use) I would assume I could do the whole 35 miles on a Leaf's pack even with 1 or 2 bars gone. I don't know though they are 2 totally different cars.

I'm missing something here. Either you are preheating the Volt a lot, or running the engine, or your definition of "frigid" doesn't match the Volts: its engine is supposed to start in frigid temps, like it or not...
 
rcm4453 said:
I figured if I can get 25 miles out of 10KW
You mean kWh.

One problem with the '12 (and '11) heater is that it has a crap slow water heater. Apparently, even the '13+ S (w/o hybrid heat pump heater) has a different and better heater that doesn't use liquid and isn't as slow to heat.
 
LeftieBiker said:
rcm4453 said:
Well I also have a 2011 Volt and I can usually get 25 miles on a frigid day in winter with the heat on going between 65 - 70mph on the freeway. I do head out of a heated garage every day so I don't have to use as much heat on the way to work. The car would sit out in the cold for 9 hours a day though while at work. No where to plug in either. I figured if I can get 25 miles out of 10KW (which is all the Volt let's me use) I would assume I could do the whole 35 miles on a Leaf's pack even with 1 or 2 bars gone. I don't know though they are 2 totally different cars.

I'm missing something here. Either you are preheating the Volt a lot, or running the engine, or your definition of "frigid" doesn't match the Volts: its engine is supposed to start in frigid temps, like it or not...


I modified my Volt's temp sensor to always read outside temp at 28 degrees, therefor engine never runs until battery is depleted. Then in the spring I flip the switch so it reads the actual outside temp.
 
cwerdna said:
rcm4453 said:
I figured if I can get 25 miles out of 10KW
You mean kWh.

One problem with the '12 (and '11) heater is that it has a crap slow water heater. Apparently, even the '13+ S (w/o hybrid heat pump heater) has a different and better heater that doesn't use liquid and isn't as slow to heat.


Yeah my Volt has the same crappy water heater system. I just remote start every night so it's warm when I get out to the car. Instant electric heat like in the '13+ models would be nice but there's a huge jump in price for those.
 
I modified my Volt's temp sensor to always read outside temp at 28 degrees, therefor engine never runs until battery is depleted. Then in the spring I flip the switch so it reads the actual outside temp.

That explains that part, anyway. I still find it hard to believer that you get 25 miles range in frigid temps, at faster highway speeds, with the heat on, but I'm no expert on Volts. If the heat is on very low, then you can probably accomplish a similar feat (35+ miles) with a Leaf, by insulating the heating system and running that very low as well. At least with the Leaf you'd have a heated steering wheel (with the Cold Weather Package on the early cars).
 
rcm4453 said:
Would a 2012 SL Leaf missing 1 bar still be able to do 35 miles on a full charge in winter here in Minnesota with the heat on? I'm seeing a lot of 2012s for really good prices online but most are missing 1 or 2 capacity bars. I don't want to spend more then $8k so this pretty much limits me to 2012s. As long as I can do 35 miles in winter I don't care if it's missing 1 or 2 bars.
As LeftieBiker said there are lots of variables, actual outside air temp probably being the biggest. In my '13 S(not sure if it has a heat pump, air or hot water heater :? ) I can get 80 miles in the summer(with AC on) but that drops to 60 in the 20s-30s with almost constant heat ON(fan speed 1 or 2 with heat set at 76 degrees, morning preheat enabled but not evening). Unfortunately when it gets in the single digits the range drops to the 40s and below zero the range could be as low as the mid 30s, and this is with a battery missing no bars. I'm generally driving mostly highway and speeds in the 65-70mph range.

That said if your getting 25 miles on a Volt(commendable) I can't believe you couldn't get 35+ on a Leaf, even missing 1 or 2 bars. As others have said you can play with the heater to gain some extra range but for the most part I have to leave mine on 100% of the time during the cold to keep the windows clear(sure wish the Leaf had a heated windscreen like some of the older Ford's). A sunny cold day may be different, allowing you to turn off the heat but as you know we have more cloudy days in the winter than sunny, thus requiring near constant heater use.

On the coldest of cold days would there be a way you could plug it in at work? I realize most parking spots don't have such previsions but you might be able to find a few spots meant more for engine block heaters or sometimes near the building they might have a lowly 120v outlet meant for service, you'd want to ask with management first though. Using 120v at sub zero temps isn't really going to gain you much battery charge but it would be nice at least for a little preheating before leaving work, should allow you to use the actual car heat less, thus extending range.
 
I have a '12 Leaf with 1 missing bar, and I am able to do 35-40 miles per charge in this pretty cold 2017 MN winter. I use seat and steering wheel heater, 64 degree heat setting (which actually takes quite a while to come on for me, so I feel like I'm half way home before it turns on.) Drive with Eco mode on for all but highway driving.
 
I haven't read all the responses but even if it did, the '11 and '12 Leafs have crappy batteries, which degrade much more quickly than build date 4/2013+ thru model year '14. Even better are the '15 lizard batteries.

So... with degradation, the journey's going to get tougher and tougher. If this is the edge of range on an 11 bar car (not idea if it is), in maybe 2-3 years, it could become really difficult w/o some charging along the way or at the destination.
 
cwerdna said:
I haven't read all the responses but even if it did, the '11 and '12 Leafs have crappy batteries, which degrade much more quickly than build date 4/2013+ thru model year '14. Even better are the '15 lizard batteries.

So... with degradation, the journey's going to get tougher and tougher. If this is the edge of range on an 11 bar car (not idea if it is), in maybe 2-3 years, it could become really difficult w/o some charging along the way or at the destination.

Unless your car has had a battery replacement with the '15 Lizard battery which hasn't proven to be much better.
 
I have the 2017 S. I got about 85 miles max range at the coldest days this winter. Rough guess is a 24kw leaf with all bars would get 80% of that (68 miles), and by the time it is down 4 bars, only half of that (34 miles).
 
I have the 2017 S. I got about 85 miles max range at the coldest days this winter. Rough guess is a 24kw leaf with all bars would get 80% of that (68 miles), and by the time it is down 4 bars, only half of that (34 miles).

That's a bit optimistic. I never got more than maybe 55 miles in frigid weather when my car was new. I think that 25 miles with 8 bars in frigid is a safer estimate.
 
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