DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13008
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Sun May 22, 2016 7:43 am

Nubo wrote:
Thanks. You might want to edit your initial post to reflect that because I was scratching my head for 6 pages wondering what kind of driving patterns we were talking about ;)


I blogged about experimenting with the battery numbers and explained what I did and it at first it seemed as if exercising the battery made it stronger because all I was doing is driving to near its capacity daily and simply recharging it for the next day.

But any time I skipped a day of charging or simply did not drive much, the numbers nose-dived so I then thought that maybe the BMS was recognizing driving patterns and merely allowed more access to the pack to accommodate.

but I think the real mechanism that is going on is simply a better balanced pack. For a few years, I took a delta of 50 mV to be pretty good and it wasn't until someone mentioned it that I started to monitor the deltas at various SOCs and found that my higher numbers very closely correlated to the balance of the pack in the lower ranges. Although top end balancing is important, the real differences in the cells begin to widen as the SOC drops. It was pretty normal for me to see deltas os 300-400 mV when SOC was low especially at or near VLB.

But when my battery stats were artificially raised to over 95% of new batt stats, the delta even at low SOCs were cut rather dramatically
pack balance at 26% SOC small.jpg
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2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

golfcart
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:08 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Mon May 23, 2016 5:45 am

mwalsh wrote:
mwalsh wrote:12/30/15: AHr=63.80 CAP=97.26% Hlth/Hx=100.00% Gids=277. Mileage: 56,588
1/24/16: AHr=63.53 CAP=96.85% Hlth/Hx=95.57% Gids=278. Mileage: 56,886
2/22/16: AHr=62.55 CAP=95.35% Hlth/Hx=93.99% SOH=98% Gids=273. Mileage: 57,363
3/19/16: AHr=62.92 CAP=95.91% Hlth/Hx=94.76% SOH=98% Gids=278. Mileage: 57,841
4/22/16: AHr=62.09 CAP=94.65% Hlth/Hx=93.26% SOH=97% Gids=274. Mileage: 58,295
4/30/16: AHr=63.91 CAP=97.43% Hlth/Hx=96.14% SOH=100% Gids=282. Mileage: 58,784



5/20/16: AHr=66.14 CAP=100.83% Hlth/Hx=98.82% SOH=100% Gids=283. Mileage: 59,457

Look at that jump in AHr!

Changing thread title to "Lizard Pack Will Hold Up IF Your Driving Patterns Support It"


I have had very similar results as mwalsh on my 2015 S.

When i purchased my 2015 S in November 2015 it had been testdriven about 10 times and had 22 miles on it with a manufacture date of December 2014. Leafspy told me the had 98% SOH and 61.53 ahr on the date of purchase. Seemed reasonable compared to what I had read on the forum given that the car had sat for almost a year much of it through a hot Virginia summer.

Having now driven it for 6 months, put over 7000 miles on it, L2 charged about 200 times, and QC'd about 40 times it now shows 100% SOH and 63.16 aHr. By all measures (according to leafspy) my battery has gotten better with regular use and daily charging to 100%.
2015 S with Charge Package

MrGreen
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:27 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Oct 2017

Re: Lizard Pack Will Hold Up IF Your Driving Patterns Support It

Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:47 pm

1/4/2018 - 2015 Leaf SL - 24,881 miles - Pacific Northwest

At 100% Charge:

aHr: 64.38
SOH: 103.67%
Hx: 104.54%
GIDs: 292

I've only had the car few months and just started using Leafspy Pro a week ago. Bought the car as a lease turn in. Either I'm reading the app wrong or the battery seems to be holding up exceptionally well. Charge mostly with L1 to 100% nightly, 29 total QC's.
2015 Blue Leaf SL, Black Interior
26k Miles
Pacific Northwest
AHr: 64.38
SOH: 103.67%
31 QC, 976 L1/L2s

SageBrush
Posts: 2497
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Lizard Pack Will Hold Up IF Your Driving Patterns Support It

Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:50 pm

^^ That is awesome.
Nissan should spend a lot of money to buy your car back and figure out what they did right.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737

Re: Lizard Pack Will Hold Up IF Your Driving Patterns Support It

Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:13 am

Attached chart of ahr vrs date is my new "Lizard" pack replaced under warranty Nov. 2016. Ahr readings of first few months somewhat erratic, but has since stabilized with I'd consider quite rapid degradation. Pack has a series of several cells that are consistently 25-40 mv below others in battery pack - always wondered if this was an almost defective pack that was culled out for a warranty replacement - just my paranoia?
Located in Houston, TX

Leaf battery ahr chart.jpg
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2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.
Rural cabin with 6750 watts Grid tied PV. Off-grid solar Leaf charging capable (level II).

Evoforce
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Lizard Pack Will Hold Up IF Your Driving Patterns Support It

Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:48 pm

You live in Texas and your degradation is par for the course. Lizard batteries do not hold up better than the original batteries in hot climates. If there is an outlier or two that show a little better, generally they will still be only 6 months better at best. Nissan has still not fixed their battery problems which translates to being our problems. A thermal management system is a must and Nissan is still not producing a Leaf that has it. Their 2018 Leaf does not have it. It remains to be seen if their 2019 Leaf will...
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

gmcjetpilot
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:45 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Oct 2017
Leaf Number: 305601
Location: Memphis TN

Re: Lizard Pack Will Hold Up IF Your Driving Patterns Support It

Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:30 pm

I'm sad to say my 2015 Nissan Leaf lizard battery) I just bought a couple of months ago, has a 84% state of health. I finally got Leaf spy and saw thus.. It still has 12 bars though.

Doing simple linear math every 3 years is 15% . I suppose I'll get down to 8 bars maybe in 6 years from now. I was hoping to get another 8 years. It has 22,000 miles on it. I'll do about 10,000 miles a year. Suppose I should be happy with 80,000 miles before battery replacement. I may just sell this thing, before it goes till 11 bars.

User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9502
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:50 pm

mwalsh wrote:
mwalsh wrote:12/30/15: AHr=63.80 CAP=97.26% Hlth/Hx=100.00% Gids=277. Mileage: 56,588
1/24/16: AHr=63.53 CAP=96.85% Hlth/Hx=95.57% Gids=278. Mileage: 56,886
2/22/16: AHr=62.55 CAP=95.35% Hlth/Hx=93.99% SOH=98% Gids=273. Mileage: 57,363
3/19/16: AHr=62.92 CAP=95.91% Hlth/Hx=94.76% SOH=98% Gids=278. Mileage: 57,841
4/22/16: AHr=62.09 CAP=94.65% Hlth/Hx=93.26% SOH=97% Gids=274. Mileage: 58,295
4/30/16: AHr=63.91 CAP=97.43% Hlth/Hx=96.14% SOH=100% Gids=282. Mileage: 58,784

5/20/16: AHr=66.14 CAP=100.83% Hlth/Hx=98.82% SOH=100% Gids=283. Mileage: 59,457


More or less the same amount of time with the replacement pack has elapsed as when I lost bar 12 in my original pack. Here is how the new pack is holding up in comparison, though apples are not necessarily apples since I no longer drive the same distances I used to:

6/21/18: AHr=56.92 CAP=90.4% Hlth/Hx=81.66% SOH=89.21% Gids=254. Mileage: 74,668 (so about 18,000 miles since install)

compared to:

6/22/13: AHr=54.07 CAP=81.61%. Mileage: 30,455 miles. Lost bar 12.
Hlth reading appears to have been added to Leaf Spy in early July, and that reading on 7/12/13 was around 76.5%.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 75,000 miles.
2015 pack under warranty 12/30/15.
Tinted windows.
Bridgestone Ecopia 422+ tires.
L1 EVSE upgrade.
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User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737

Re: Lizard Pack Will Hold Up IF Your Driving Patterns Support It

Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:08 am

My latest Lizard chart (when able to load) indicates that a rather steep decline appears to occur during the winter months (average battery pack temperature) and then substantially rebounds during spring the when the temperatures rebound (nothing really new, except this is data in a really hot climate):

The latest as of 6/15/18 - 59.2 ahr, Hx 85.8. this is after 13,000 miles and 19 months. I do not use quick charge facilities - my level II (VAC) works fine for my situation. Thought I was close to losing the 12th bar - now not so sure.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.
Rural cabin with 6750 watts Grid tied PV. Off-grid solar Leaf charging capable (level II).

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JPWhite
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Leaf Number: 5734
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Re: Lizard Pack Will Hold Up IF Your Driving Patterns Support It

Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:42 am

Marktm wrote:My latest Lizard chart (when able to load) indicates that a rather steep decline appears to occur during the winter months (average battery pack temperature) and then substantially rebounds during spring the when the temperatures rebound (nothing really new, except this is data in a really hot climate):

The latest as of 6/15/18 - 59.2 ahr, Hx 85.8. this is after 13,000 miles and 19 months. I do not use quick charge facilities - my level II (VAC) works fine for my situation. Thought I was close to losing the 12th bar - now not so sure.


Thanks for posting. I have noticed similar rebound in Ah in the warmer months which is very different to how the original pack behaved. The original pack degradation stopped in cold months and accelerated in warm months, the lizard pack does behave differently. My pack dropped down to 59Ah during the winter months but is now hovering around 63Ah. This after 18 months and 22,000 miles on the new pack. The Nashville area does get hot for 2-3 months of the year.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
Blue SL-e, Res 4/22/10, Ord 3/29/11, Del 7/30/11
110,000 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)

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