kubel
Posts: 1607
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:38 am
Leaf Number: 19628
Location: Southeast Michigan

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:52 pm

This just about sums up my feelings when it comes to Nissan batteries:

2012 Nissan LEAF SV
20% degradation in 42k miles
Leased 5-17-2012, Returned 1-15-2016


2017 Chevy Volt LT
Siren Red Tintcoat
Leased 10-21-2016

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4370
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Boca Raton FL

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:59 pm

It will be interesting to hear what happens when the batteries truly reach end of life, by that I mean losing 10, 11 or 12 bars. Even a car that only goes 10 miles is useful to some set of people; it certainly beats walking. It will also be interesting to hear how Nissan treats those cases in regards to the eight year part of the warranty. Seems like a distinct possibility with cars in warmer climates. Also seems likely such scenarios will happen with second or third owners, possibly picking up cars in otherwise nice condition for $1500.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue

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mwalsh
Posts: 9482
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:25 am

mwalsh wrote:12/30/15: AHr=63.80 CAP=97.26% Hlth/Hx=100.00% Gids=277. Mileage: 56,588
1/24/16: AHr=63.53 CAP=96.85% Hlth/Hx=95.57% Gids=278. Mileage: 56,886
2/22/16: AHr=62.55 CAP=95.35% Hlth/Hx=93.99% SOH=98% Gids=273. Mileage: 57,363
3/19/16: AHr=62.92 CAP=95.91% Hlth/Hx=94.76% SOH=98% Gids=278. Mileage: 57,841


4/22/16: AHr=62.09 CAP=94.65% Hlth/Hx=93.26% SOH=97% Gids=274. Mileage: 58,295
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 72,000 miles.
2015 pack under warranty 12/30/15.
Tinted windows.
Michelin MXV4 tires.
L1 EVSE upgrade.
FIAMM horns.
Superbright LED lighting.
2013 sun visors.
LED shifter.
Heated seats.
GT-R map lamp lenses.
AV L2 EVSE.

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JPWhite
Gold Member
Posts: 1753
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:41 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5734
Location: Hendersonville TN
Contact: Website WLM Yahoo Messenger AOL

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:55 am

mwalsh wrote:
mwalsh wrote:12/30/15: AHr=63.80 CAP=97.26% Hlth/Hx=100.00% Gids=277. Mileage: 56,588
1/24/16: AHr=63.53 CAP=96.85% Hlth/Hx=95.57% Gids=278. Mileage: 56,886
2/22/16: AHr=62.55 CAP=95.35% Hlth/Hx=93.99% SOH=98% Gids=273. Mileage: 57,363
3/19/16: AHr=62.92 CAP=95.91% Hlth/Hx=94.76% SOH=98% Gids=278. Mileage: 57,841


4/22/16: AHr=62.09 CAP=94.65% Hlth/Hx=93.26% SOH=97% Gids=274. Mileage: 58,295


So you've done less than 2,000 miles in 5 months?

If so capacity loss is running about 4 GID's/month (1.5%) without the addition of significant cycle losses..
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
Blue SL-e, Res 4/22/10, Ord 3/29/11, Del 7/30/11
110,000 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)

bolshevik36
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:14 pm
Leaf Number: 416110
Location: San Bernardino CA

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:02 pm

So if im not mistaken the first 'lizards' were put in 2014's right?

If they are degrading the same as 2011's, then I gotta ask, what are 2011's clocking in range wise today?
2013 Leaf S (w/6.6 package)

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7384
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:07 am

bolshevik36 wrote:So if im not mistaken the first 'lizards' were put in 2014's right?

No. Officially, they first showed up in '15 Leafs per viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168. There's been some speculation that some late '14s got it, but I know of no Nissan confirmation on this.

bolshevik36 wrote:If they are degrading the same as 2011's,

No. There's been some evidence to suggest that the pre-lizard batteries that began showing up in '13 Leafs maybe w/build months of 4/2013 are doing better in terms of degradation than anything before it. (Someone please correct me if I'm off a month.) Presumably, everything from that month forward is the same until the "lizard" batteries.

How much better the lizard batteries are doing than the above, if any, is unclear (in my book) at the moment.
bolshevik36 wrote:then I gotta ask, what are 2011's clocking in range wise today?

Poor question. One's range until dead depends on both remaining usable capacity and one's driving efficiency in miles/kWh. And lower temps throw this off, as well due to a # of factors (e.g. temporarily reduced capacity in cold, having to run the heater in the cold, reduced driving efficiency in snow, slush or rain, etc.)

Someone throwing out a # about their "range" is useless because we don't know their efficiency and know nothing about their remaining capacity. And, we don't know how low they're going before they call it quits.

Let's put it another way, if you asked a bunch of guys with '10 Corvette (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do? ... s&id=28529) rated 15 mpg city/25 mpg highway w/18 gallon tanks their "range" and you had cases like these, how useful do you think their range numbers would be?
guy A) short city drives, esp in the cold w/lots of stop and go so he only achieves say 12 mpg AND he calls it quits when down to 1/4 tank

guy B) w/almost all long highway driving but keeps it below 60 mph so he probably achieves 28+ mpg and he fills up when the fuel warning light turns on

When people complain about "poor" or significantly worse range, people need to answer questions like viewtopic.php?p=275421#p275421 for us to help them.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12402
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:32 am

my 2013 is holding up better than my 2011 but to what degree, I am still working on. right now my battery stats are predictably low due to a lot of non driving, few full charges, etc. Every time my driving patterns are like this, my stats drop. I just past my low water mark for ahr on Tuesday (previous low was in late August of 2015 followed by 6-7 months of stats averaging above 97%)

Something I have stated many many times is that Nissan battery tech has is an ongoing improvement that has pretty much been continuous since before 2013. This is why 2013 performance was better. Now keep in mind; chemistry is only one part of the formula. BMS. battery control, regen, etc. all has been played with to find a better compromise and it does appear to be working. Now, its not working as fast or as much as we would like but there is definitely something going on.

now should Nissan hype like Tesla? ... well there is a lot to say about that on both sides, so I will let you guys at it.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Phatcat73
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:44 pm
Leaf Number: 401511
Location: Buffalo Grove, Il

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:57 am

Stats after 1 Chicago and 1 Phoenix summer.
2015
Ahr 57.07
Soh 91%
Miles 11,385

Dropped 3% soh during the winter months in AZ.

Noticeable degradation from new when I had 64.38 ahr 1.5 years ago. Will be interesting to see stats after this summer. Greatly disappointed w Nissan. Last Toyota lasted 15 years and was sold running. This car will not hold up.
2016 SV; purchased 20-Jan-17, <5k, 98% SOH; 01-Apr-17
2013 SV; purchased 6-March-13 44k, 81% SOH; 3-Apr-17
2015 S; purchased 29-July-14, moved to AZ Nov-2014, 19k, 83% SOH; 30-Mar-17
(LD storage) 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid 4x2), 101k

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12402
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:35 am

Phatcat73 wrote:Stats after 1 Chicago and 1 Phoenix summer.
2015
Ahr 57.07
Soh 91%
Miles 11,385

Dropped 3% soh during the winter months in AZ.

Noticeable degradation from new when I had 64.38 ahr 1.5 years ago. Will be interesting to see stats after this summer. Greatly disappointed w Nissan. Last Toyota lasted 15 years and was sold running. This car will not hold up.



as mentioned above, not driving it much (11,000 miles after near two years qualifies you I think) will lower the battery numbers. to what degree? I don't know other than mine showed more than a 4 point swing on ahr...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bolshevik36
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:14 pm
Leaf Number: 416110
Location: San Bernardino CA

Re: Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up

Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:07 pm

I may have asked a poorly constructed question, considering your points, but I still didnt get a single answer!

I just want to know what my range/capacity will be on 5 yr old Leaf; in this case the 2011's. I need to make sure buying a Leaf makes sense economically which is why I am asking this question. Even 15-20 miles is very useful for my uses, so Im thinking he battery can lose 60%+ capacity/range and still be useful errand/shopping car for our family.

Also so some of you are saying using it more, with full charges, prolongs the battery life? That is counter-intuitive no?
2013 Leaf S (w/6.6 package)

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