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JPWhite
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Re: Nissan Battery Replacement Program, Cost

Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:34 pm


there has been a constant improvement in battery chemistry over time and as my previous post suggests, I think we shall realize another significant date of Nov 2016 or later for the preferred build date of the 30 kwh pack just as after April 2013 was preferred for the 2013 build.


Interesting, didn't know there were good and bad 30kWH packs. Thanks for the info.

As for the 24kWh packs I typically advise folks to look for 2015 MY LEAF's and later. They all have the "lizard" packs, which appear to have some hidden buffer to prevent early degradation of range.

I see NEC is selling its half of AESC to a chinese investor. So that will probably mean the end of the AESC packs sooner rather than later. We will find out soon enough if the 2018 LEAF has AESC or another manufactures packs in them.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
Blue SL-e, Res 4/22/10, Ord 3/29/11, Del 7/30/11
110,000 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Nissan Battery Replacement Program, Cost

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:28 pm

JPWhite wrote:

there has been a constant improvement in battery chemistry over time and as my previous post suggests, I think we shall realize another significant date of Nov 2016 or later for the preferred build date of the 30 kwh pack just as after April 2013 was preferred for the 2013 build.


Interesting, didn't know there were good and bad 30kWH packs. Thanks for the info.

As for the 24kWh packs I typically advise folks to look for 2015 MY LEAF's and later. They all have the "lizard" packs, which appear to have some hidden buffer to prevent early degradation of range.

I see NEC is selling its half of AESC to a chinese investor. So that will probably mean the end of the AESC packs sooner rather than later. We will find out soon enough if the 2018 LEAF has AESC or another manufactures packs in them.


Nothing official yet (but then again, there never has been acknowledgment from Nissan on differences in pack chemistry) but a few 30 kwh LEAFs have lost bars and they were all 2015 builds.

Now I am sure we could conjure up all kinds of reasons why Nissan decided to upgrade the S trim with 30 kwh just a few months away from the 2017 launch but to me the timing of the event suggests more.

I think or rather on a purely speculative note; feel that the date will become another characteristic when shopping used in a few years. Only time will tell. Who knows? Maybe the release date was simply random? I am sure big corporations who spend years meticulously planning these things just picked the date at random... :roll:
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
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jhm614
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Re: Nissan Battery Replacement Program, Cost

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:48 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Nothing official yet (but then again, there never has been acknowledgment from Nissan on differences in pack chemistry) but a few 30 kwh LEAFs have lost bars and they were all 2015 builds.

Now I am sure we could conjure up all kinds of reasons why Nissan decided to upgrade the S trim with 30 kwh just a few months away from the 2017 launch but to me the timing of the event suggests more.

I almost always agree with you but...

Two things: I believe in 2013, only a few 24kWh LEAFs had lost bars and they were all 2011s. What I mean is that it's possible the 2016s haven't been out long enough to see lost bars.

and

I believe Nissan had a contract for 220,000 electrodes from NEC for the 24kWh batteries. Once that contract was met, then the S was moved to the 30kWh battery...

Either way, I think Nissan has been a little uneven on help with out-of-warranty replacements but in general, they have been a very, very good job recently with a couple of notable exceptions.
2011 Brilliant Silver SL - 110,000 gasoline free miles so far.
4BL: 06/29/13 @ 27 months, 43,520 miles, 42.56 Ahr. New 12 bar battery: 09/09/13
4BLx2:12/31/16 @ 69 months, 99,475 miles, 42.99 Ahr.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Nissan Battery Replacement Program, Cost

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:22 pm

jhm614 wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Nothing official yet (but then again, there never has been acknowledgment from Nissan on differences in pack chemistry) but a few 30 kwh LEAFs have lost bars and they were all 2015 builds.

Now I am sure we could conjure up all kinds of reasons why Nissan decided to upgrade the S trim with 30 kwh just a few months away from the 2017 launch but to me the timing of the event suggests more.

I almost always agree with you but...

Two things: I believe in 2013, only a few 24kWh LEAFs had lost bars and they were all 2011s. What I mean is that it's possible the 2016s haven't been out long enough to see lost bars.

and

I believe Nissan had a contract for 220,000 electrodes from NEC for the 24kWh batteries. Once that contract was met, then the S was moved to the 30kWh battery...

Either way, I think Nissan has been a little uneven on help with out-of-warranty replacements but in general, they have been a very, very good job recently with a couple of notable exceptions.


so they would have to negotiate a new contract to supply electrodes for 24 kwh warranty packs? Hmmm???

As far as "only a few 24 kwh LEAFs" that is way out in left field. We have the full spectrum of loss and longevity around the 2013-1014 LEAFs (2014's lumped in because the build year was so short) with a distinct line running about April 2013 where ones built before that date (remember the American production of the LEAF had only started a few months before that) were losing capacity a lot faster than ones built after that date leading to speculation that many had "Lizard" or at worst "Lizard trial" chemistry despite the "official" lizard launch being for the 2015 MY
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
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jhm614
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Re: Nissan Battery Replacement Program, Cost

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:33 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:so they would have to negotiate a new contract to supply electrodes for 24 kwh warranty packs? Hmmm???

As far as "only a few 24 kwh LEAFs" that is way out in left field. We have the full spectrum of loss and longevity around the 2013-1014 LEAFs (2014's lumped in because the build year was so short) with a distinct line running about April 2013 where ones built before that date (remember the American production of the LEAF had only started a few months before that) were losing capacity a lot faster than ones built after that date leading to speculation that many had "Lizard" or at worst "Lizard trial" chemistry despite the "official" lizard launch being for the 2015 MY


Re:Contracted Electodes Possibly, but they would have wanted to minimize it and certainly not negotiate a contract to support global S production.

Re:30kWh bar Loss in 2017. I'm not explaining this well. In August of 2013, there was no 2013 or 2014 bar loss, there was only 2011 bar loss. The 12's and 13's weren't old enough to have loss and the 14's hadn't been produced yet. In August of 2017, there is only '15 bar loss for the 30kWh. The '16s and '17s aren't old enough yet.
2011 Brilliant Silver SL - 110,000 gasoline free miles so far.
4BL: 06/29/13 @ 27 months, 43,520 miles, 42.56 Ahr. New 12 bar battery: 09/09/13
4BLx2:12/31/16 @ 69 months, 99,475 miles, 42.99 Ahr.

SageBrush
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Re: Nissan Battery Replacement Program, Cost

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:37 pm

jhm614 wrote:
Re:2015 bar Loss in 2017. I'm not explaining this well. In 2013, there was no 2013 or 2014 bar loss, there was only 2011 bar loss. The 12's and 13's weren't old enough to have loss and the 14's hadn't been produced yet. In 2017, there is only '15 bar loss for the 30kWh. The '16s and '17s aren't old enough yet.

It was clear the first time, and I agree with your point. Too early to say whether Nissan started out with 30 kWh duds, and way too early to say whether the batteries have improved. Dave's attempt to extrapolate from an N=1 (the 24 kWh packs) is fairly silly.
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Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Nissan Battery Replacement Program, Cost

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:52 pm

Lets come back to this in a year when things are more clearer. I may be on to nothing...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
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JPWhite
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Re: Nissan Battery Replacement Program, Cost

Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:09 pm

JPWhite wrote:I see NEC is selling its half of AESC to a chinese investor. So that will probably mean the end of the AESC packs sooner rather than later. We will find out soon enough if the 2018 LEAF has AESC or another manufactures packs in them.


It appears I had my story a little sideways. Nissan is buying out NEC's 49% and then selling the whole thing to a chinese investor.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/nissan-wont-build-its-own-electric-car-batteries-anymore/

Amounts to the same.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
Blue SL-e, Res 4/22/10, Ord 3/29/11, Del 7/30/11
110,000 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)

Flash
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Re: Nissan Battery Replacement Program, Cost

Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:49 pm

I'll try to be brief, but this could be a long post. Sorry. ;)

I just had my 2011 Leaf's traction battery replaced because there were only 7 bars showing and I was only getting 30 ~ 40 miles from a full charge (or so I think; I never let it run all the way out.) The battery warranty ran out in April, but I didn't understand which bars in the dash display meant what, so I didn't realize that the battery would probably have been replaced under the Nissan warranty in April.

I bought the car used in 2013 with about 5,000 miles on it from a Chevy dealer who shall remain nameless because of the shameful way they treated me. For instance, they registered the car as a gasoline burner because they couldn't figure out, or couldn't be bothered to figure out, how to register it as an electric car.

I didn't notice how many bars were showing when I bought the car because I didn't know what to look for. Possibly there were fewer than 10. I don't think it ever went more than about 60 miles on a full charge, though I never ran it all the way to zero to see how far it would go. It went far enough to suit my needs.

Whoever bought the car new purchased it from ABC Nissan of Phoenix, so this is where I took it to have the battery replaced. The service advisor was Matt Vronski and in my limited experience with car dealerships he went way out of his way to do me right. However, he didn't seem to know much about Leaf batteries. He gave me an estimate of a little over $7000 to replace the battery, parts and labor. That's what I'd been expecting, so I said okay.

Matt said I'd need to pay a little over $6000 before they'd order the new battery. I gave him a credit card with a $7000 limit and we were off. That was on a Friday as I recall.

Over that weekend I researched the web and found (on this forum) that Nissan has a program that will pay up to 80% of the cost of replacing a battery. So Monday morning I called the Nissan EV number (877) 664-2738 and talked to Jason at extension 458068. I gave him my particulars and he said he'd see what Nissan would do for me.

Later the same Monday, Matt from ABC Nissan called to say the battery was ordered and it would take a week or ten days to get here. Then later he called to say that Nissan had agreed to pay 70% of the cost of replacing the battery. It would only cost me a little over $2000.

The next day, Tuesday, Matt called to say the battery was here and when could I bring in the Leaf and leaf it for a day? I said the next day, Wednesday, would be fine, but I had no other transportation. Matt arranged a free rental for me. So I brought the Leaf in at 7 AM the next day, Wednesday. Wednesday evening, Matt called to say the battery was replaced and everything checked ok. The total for me would be a little over $2000. Matt refunded the $6000 back to my credit card, then charged the $2000 and I took the car.

After installing it, the battery was fast charged to 100% by ABC Nissan. When I started home, which is about a 12 mile drive on freeways, the remaining range indicator varied from a brief high of around 110 miles to a fairly steady reading of around 93 miles, if I remember right. Over the next two weeks I drove the car without recharging it, to see what its range would be. After 75 miles, the remaining range indicator said there were another 15 miles left. That's when I recharged it.

So I think this new battery will actually go about 90 miles, but that's the absolute maximum in a Phoenix summer. In the winter, of course, much less.
Last edited by Flash on Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Nissan Battery Replacement Program, Cost

Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:07 pm

Flash wrote:I'll try to be brief, but this could be a long post. Sorry. ;)

I just had my 2011 Leaf's traction battery replaced because there were only 7 bars showing and I was only getting 30 ~ 40 miles from a full charge (or so I think; I never let it run all the way out.) The battery warranty ran out in April, but I didn't understand which bars in the dash display meant what, so I didn't realize that the battery would probably have been replaced under the Nissan warranty in April.

I bought the car used in 2013 with about 5,000 miles on it from a Chevy dealer who shall remain nameless because of the shameful way they treated me. For instance, they registered the car as a gasoline burner because they couldn't figure out, or couldn't be bothered to figure out, how to register it as an electric car.

I didn't notice how many bars were showing when I bought the car because I didn't know what to look for. Possibly there were fewer than 10. I don't think it ever went more than about 60 miles on a full charge, though I never ran it all the way to zero to see how far it would go.

Whoever bought the car new purchased it from ABC Nissan of Phoenix, so this is where I took it to have the battery replaced. The service advisor was Matt Vronski and in my limited experience with car dealerships he went way out of his way to do me right. However, he didn't seem to know much about Leaf batteries. I got an estimate of a little over $7000 to replace the battery, parts and labor. That's what I'd been expecting, so I said okay. He said I'd need to pay a little over $6000 before they'd order the new battery. I gave him a credit card with a $7000 limit and we were off. That was on a Friday as I recall.

Over that weekend I researched the web and found (on this forum) that Nissan has a program that will pay up to 80% of the cost of replacing a battery. So Monday morning I called the Nissan EV number (877) 664-2738 and talked to a Jason at extension 458068. I gave him my particulars and he said he'd see what Nissan would do for me.

Later the same Monday, Matt from ABC Nissan called to say the battery was ordered and it would take a week or ten days to get here. Then later he called to say that Nissan had agreed to pay 70% of the cost of replacing the battery. It would only cost me a little over $2000.

The next day, Tuesday, Matt called to say the battery was here and when could I bring in the Leaf and leaf it for a day? I said the next day, Wednesday, would be fine, but I had no other transportation. Matt arranged a free rental for me. So I brought the Leaf in at 7 AM the next day, Wednesday. Wednesday evening, Matt called to say the battery was replaced and everything checked ok. The total for me would be a little over $2000. Matt refunded the $6000 back to my credit card, then charged the $2000 and I took the car.

After installing it, the battery was fast charged to 100% by ABC Nissan. When I started home, which is about a 12 mile drive on freeways, the range indicator varied between a brief high of around 110 miles and a fairly steady reading of around 93 miles, if I remember right. Over the next two weeks I drove the car without recharging it, to see what its range would be. After 75 miles, the remaining range indicator said there were another 15 miles left. That's when I recharged it.

So I think this new battery will actually go about 90 miles, but that's the absolute maximum in a Phoenix summer. In the winter, of course, much less.


congrats on the new pack (and essentially new car!) but the "lesser range in Winter" comment. Not sure that applies to you...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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