FairwoodRed
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 10:25 am
Location: Fairwood, WA

Most bars lost?

Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:45 am

So today I finally lost my 5th bar and it started to make me wonder what is the most bars that anyone has lost? 6? 7? And will rate of loss change as the pack deteriorates?

I tried searching the forum, but with no real success. I know there was a capacity loss spreadsheet, but I haven't been able to find that today.

I've been keeping a log of my usage for a while now and it's probably time to extract that and see if I can analyze it - maybe I'll be able to evaluate my own rate of loss.

For those keeping score at home, I have a 2011 with 100k miles at 5 years of ownership used in the Seattle area. My capacity is at 59% today. Part of me wants to see just how long I can drive it and part wants to buy a new pack. Who know what I'll end up doing :)

dhanson865
Moderator
Posts: 1477
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:12 am
Leaf Number: 16156
Location: Tennessee

Re: Most bars lost?

Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:14 am

FairwoodRed wrote:So today I finally lost my 5th bar and it started to make me wonder what is the most bars that anyone has lost? 6? 7? And will rate of loss change as the pack deteriorates?

I tried searching the forum, but with no real success. I know there was a capacity loss spreadsheet, but I haven't been able to find that today.

I've been keeping a log of my usage for a while now and it's probably time to extract that and see if I can analyze it - maybe I'll be able to evaluate my own rate of loss.

For those keeping score at home, I have a 2011 with 100k miles at 5 years of ownership used in the Seattle area. My capacity is at 59% today. Part of me wants to see just how long I can drive it and part wants to buy a new pack. Who know what I'll end up doing :)


6 bars lost is the most I've seen. See http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real ... acity_Loss

Your car is in the wiki for the 1st bar lost. Give me miles and dates for bars 2, 3, 4 and I'll add those and the 5th you just lost.
2012 Leaf tires 195/65/15 Dunlop Enasave 01 A/S, 15" Rims
wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss
(leaf range chart)
(efficiency 3.x KW vs 6.x KW)
please join Truedelta.com and input your repairs.

brian0123
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:19 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2015

Re: Most bars lost?

Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:59 pm

I'm curious as well. My 2012 SL here in Houston just dropped to 3rd bar at only 14640 miles.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1683
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Most bars lost?

Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:52 am

I'm very curious as to the pack's behavior as the capacity drops. I only need the car to get me 20 miles in order to be useful. I am hoping it will be able to do at least that for a long time. I will likely not ever be buying a new pack for this car, but will upgrade to the latest technology when I need to.

But what happens when the battery fades below 5 or 6 bars? Does it just fail at some point? Does it continue to degrade? Does the degradation speed up or slow down?

These are all questions that many of us have. Our best bet for answers is to share our experiences.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

Reddy
Posts: 1442
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Most bars lost?

Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:21 am

No more regen, only friction brakes, so more wear.
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21961&p=462052#p462052
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 46.44 AHr; 40,067 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

jjeff
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Most bars lost?

Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:32 pm

Reddy wrote:No more regen, only friction brakes, so more wear.
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21961&p=462052#p462052

Maybe thats more why my '12 missing 3 bars has such awful regen compared to my '13 missing no bars. I purchased the '12 used missing the 3 bars(hasn't dropped since I've owned it) but I thought minimal regen was more related to the year of the car and not necessarily the condition of the battery. I switch between my '12 and '13 and my '13 at 98% SOC has more regen than my '12 does even with a mostly discharged battery. Too bad as the '12 could really use more regen as it's battery holds significantly less capacity than my '13 :(
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

Reddy
Posts: 1442
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Most bars lost?

Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:00 pm

Ok, here's somebody who has lost SEVEN bars, that's crazy:
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=22387&start=10#p467481
I have a 5-capacity bar LEAF, and still have no hesitation going on a 60 mile round trip with a QC halfway. A short while ago, when there were 6 capacity bars, I went on an unplanned 100 mile round trip (thought it was about 70), which was an adventure as the last Nissan dealership with a QC that I stopped at was technically closed, but I was able to charge, and without that I don't think I would have made it home. I really can't see being in college and going more than 30 or 40 miles from the campus very often, especially if it is in a big city.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 46.44 AHr; 40,067 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

FairwoodRed
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 10:25 am
Location: Fairwood, WA

Re: Most bars lost?

Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:53 pm

dhanson865 wrote:
Your car is in the wiki for the 1st bar lost. Give me miles and dates for bars 2, 3, 4 and I'll add those and the 5th you just lost.


I don't think I have dates and miles on the bar losses. I have LeafSpy logs, but I don't know if I can extract bar losses from those.

I did graph my capacity versus time and it looks remarkably consistent. I didn't see any real change in the capacity loss slope except for seasonal changes.

sub3marathonman
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:57 am
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2012
Location: Bartow, FL

Re: Most bars lost?

Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:46 pm

Reddy wrote:Ok, here's somebody who has lost SEVEN bars, that's crazy:
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=22387&start=10#p467481


Hey, that's me!!!

At some point I'll get the data together, as I have recorded every time a capacity bar dropped. I'm thinking though that I'm not going to be able to see how low it will actually go, as I'm at 59,600 miles.

I will say that I have treated this battery nicely, I have only seen 7 temperature bars once, and that was only after a QC, and drive it with no more than four dots when I'm accelerating, which isn't often. :D For many months after I got the car, I would leave it outside overnight to keep it cooler, and charge on the 120V and also just to 80%, but of course I did switch over to the 240V as I couldn't withstand the inefficiency of the 120V charging at only about 85% efficiency, and now I can't have it less than 100% if I want to go anywhere out of my neighborhood. It has been quick charged a total of 62 times, and only on a few rare occasions more than one QC per day, and the second QC would be in the cooler evening as I was coming home.

My theory is that the dealership here in Florida destroyed the battery in the many months they had it out on their lot, in the heat and sun, keeping it at 100% charge all the time. It isn't the heat that destroys the battery, it isn't the 100% charge that destroys the battery, it is the combination of the two, with an exponential effect rather than a linear effect. I don't think the QC vs. L2 vs. L1 charging has any effect at all, at least that I've noticed. Of course, there is a time factor in there too, as now the batteries have aged, but I'm still thinking that factor is minimal compared to the heat + 100% factor.

I also don't understand how people are seeing a loss of regeneration, except of course when it is at 100% charge, which is much more often now. I drive it in ECO and still have what seems to me a normal amount.

jjeff
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Most bars lost?

Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:28 pm

sub3marathonman wrote:
Reddy wrote:....I also don't understand how people are seeing a loss of regeneration, except of course when it is at 100% charge, which is much more often now. I drive it in ECO and still have what seems to me a normal amount.

I don't know what my '12 was when new but now at 10 bars I can say for a fact that the regen(bubbles and engine breaking) is very minimal compared to my 12 bar '13, which to me is undesirable as the '12 could benefit from more range from the regen as it's range is already 20%?? less than the '13.
In comparison I get more regen on my '13 at 96% SOC than I ever get on my '12. Like you said at a high SOC on the '12 has basically nothing but even at 80, 70, 60 etc. regen on the '12 is minimal. In fact it seems to have a sweet spot, at higher SOC it's almost non existent, near the middle SOC it has some, sometimes shows full bubbles but near the bottom it seems to drop off a bit. Not as bad as high SOC but not as good as middle SOC.
I also notice as I approach a freeway off ramp I may have 2 or 3 bubbles of regen showing(with a middle SOC) but as soon as I hit the breaks I get another bubble or two :? Almost like at first it doesn't want to allow much regen but as soon as it takes a little regen it says, hey, I can take even more and it does......or so it seems.
I really wish I had better control over the regen, personally I'd like almost all I could get all the time, its one reason I frequently use the 80% option on both the '13 and even '12 when I can. I know coasting or hyper-miling may be more efficient in the long run but I frequently run in stop and go traffic or even approach stop lights and like the ability to not hit my breaks or as little as possible. I rarely drive in a country road or freeway situations that have lots of up and down hills where hyper-miling might be beneficial, I drive in stop and go traffic with my Leafs.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

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