205 GIDS--18 miles, 6,000 vertical, make it? Or not?

Hi, working with Tony's Range Chart, and wondering how many Bars GIDS I might need to make 18 miles with a 6,000 vertical feet gain...? At full charge I am showing 205 GIDS at current temps...

Uphill speeds are limited by statute to about 45MPH, actual in many spots much lower, but I could dial back much of it, and just pull out to let cars go by... Clearly the energy burner on this trip is the uphill... So not sure how closely the 1.5 bars/1000 ft holds, but that would be 7.5 [edit, make that 9] bars right there, and 18 mile would be about 3 bars at 40mph?

Seems kinda close to me but doable... I've done this before, but 2 years ago when the battery on my 2011 held a bit more, and no LEAF SPY to keep better notes... The GOM showed a couple of miles left but I never hit even LBW, so the climb is the thing...

By way of reference, it's a two leg charge trip, going from West Los Angeles, to Claremont, and then topping off with an L2 charge (should take about 5 hours or less) which is fine. Worst case, I could probably beg a L1 in the small town of Mt. Baldy if my calcs showed the last 2,000 feet was out of range...

Downhill, is of course, not a charge issue, but a use the brakes issue; on the full charge I will take on the get home without a stop...

Any keen minds have a thought on this...?

Based on http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=309&p=6025 you will will store 7.8kWh of gravitational potential energy in the car by taking the cars mass up the hill. Assuming the battery / electronics / motor is 80% efficient (assumed), this would require 9.75 kWh in energy from the battery. Add in approx 0.2kWh per mile for friction, wind etc at 45MPH (3.6kWh) and you're at 13.35kWh required.

1 GID is 80Wh. So your 205 GID battery has 16.4kWh. In theory you should make it.

Worst case If you hit VLBW and are not going to make it, you can just turn around and regen / coast all the way back down the hill. At least you won't get stranded!

Aussie said:

...Worst case If you hit VLBW and are not going to make it, you can just turn around and regen / coast all the way back down the hill. At least you won't get stranded!

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True enough... Thanks for the calc.

I can see hitting VLBW and seeing the summit... I've been there on hiking trips, where we hit the turn around, and don't summit. Now the adventure is the car...

Not sure if you caught it in my post, but there is a town at 5000 feet that has electricity, fire station, motel, etc. So I'd think with hat in hand I might get a bar there (but not drinking at a bar with an hour charge if it didn't look like the summit was in order... Going under 30 on the uphill might add a buffer of energy... I really wish last time I'd have LEAF pro and been able to note the GID count up, with milestone points, etc.

It'd be nice to know when this simply can't happen due to battery capacity loss.....

I think you can make it as long as you don't use heater (battery will be close if not into VLBW). If you go, watch out for resistance heater draw if you need to run defrost.

Gerry

Our LEAF's capacity is pretty similar to yours, at ~25% capacity loss (give or take). It can still do 20 miles with 4900' net elevation gain, going from Redlands, CA up to our home. The end charge would be between VLBW and LBW, maybe "12%" in gids. That's with minimal use of climate control and moderate speeds, no more than about 40 mph on the mountain climb.

I don't know if you're thinking of climbing Mt. Baldy Road, but if you are, the net elevation gain is no more than about 5200', since Claremont at the base of the mountain is at close to 1200'. That should be quite doable, especially since Mt. Baldy Road doesn't have too much traffic and you should be able to keep your speed down.

Gerry and Abasile, thanks for the thoughts and I seem to think you are right... Will probably do the run over the Christmas Break... My end point is the Mt.Baldy ski lifts, and then back to overnight (and charge) closer to Manker Flats... I may do a little more research, but I wonder if regen still works in Turtle, which in that case just trudge up until that point if need be, but don't think I will hit it...

Have done this trip twice both a few years ago... This time will keep careful notes on temp, wind, milestone, and energy status using the LEAF app. No heat, of course, on the way up...

It is kind of ironic as I will pass the first supposed first hydroelectric plant constructed in the US just below the town of Mt. Baldy that sent electricity back down to Claremont below...

Electricity everywhere, but no easy 240V plugs... Of course, could take a gasser but what fun is that?

Thanks again...

Good luck! I would not leave the Leaf at Turtle over night in the cold weather. That's asking for trouble. LBW maybe VLBW should be ok. I don't have any experience with what you're attempting, but I did have the Leaf go into a "Turtle-like" mode when it was really cold and at LBW. I still had two bars left, but the car refused to go more than 25 mph. I drove 4 mi at 25 mph (I literally floored the accelerator to get that) at about 15 F. This wasn't Turtle because you can only travel about 1/2 mi (flat) on real Turtle. This was probably related to an unbalanced cell meeting the low voltage cutoff for Turtle, while the other cells were much higher. In any case, be careful.

I don't think JimSouCal is going to have an issue with the battery temperature being low, given all of the charging and the subsequent mountain climb that his LEAF will undergo. It will certainly cool down while parked at the ski lifts during the day, but he'll have it on a 120V outlet overnight.

Lately, here at 6130' altitude with temperatures in the upper 20s and 30s Fahrenheit, our 2011 LEAF has been showing two battery temperature bars most of the time. But we've only been driving it locally since buying a used Tesla earlier this Fall. If we were to drive the LEAF down the mountain and back up, it would take a while to drop back below four temperature bars, based on past experience.

In Claremont, charging at the Rancho Santa Ana Botanic Gardens (https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/55301) or Harvey Mudd College (https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/60089) would be about as close as you can get to the base of the mountain, it appears. From either of those locations, the Mt. Baldy Ski Lifts would be less than 16 miles.

abasile said:

I don't think JimSouCal is going to have an issue with the battery temperature being low, given all of the charging and the subsequent mountain climb that his LEAF will undergo. It will certainly cool down while parked at the ski lifts during the day, but he'll have it on a 120V outlet overnight.

Lately, here at 6130' altitude with temperatures in the upper 20s and 30s Fahrenheit, our 2011 LEAF has been showing two battery temperature bars most of the time. But we've only been driving it locally since buying a used Tesla earlier this Fall. If we were to drive the LEAF down the mountain and back up, it would take a while to drop back below four temperature bars, based on past experience.

In Claremont, charging at the Rancho Santa Ana Botanic Gardens (https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/55301) or Harvey Mudd College (https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/60089) would be about as close as you can get to the base of the mountain, it appears. From either of those locations, the Mt. Baldy Ski Lifts would be less than 16 miles.

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Thanks for the ride report and confirming my assumptions on the battery temps... Have charged up at the Botanical Gardens once before... Nice area to hang out while charging... And good to know there are several back ups...

As EV's gain market, the more charging stations, and the better an aging battery can be... In WLA and Santa Monica, lots of options for L2 and L3, but busy (and ICE blocked) spots are common. For running around EVs are great. USA, cross country, maybe the future is not cars at all? Thanks again, cheers, Jim

JimSouCal said:

USA, cross country, maybe the future is not cars at all?

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Maybe some Hyperloop-type solution will help with lots of cross country travel. With full autonomy, though, big-battery EVs won't be so bad for long distances. And it'll still be tough to take the family on a national park camping trip, for instance, without a car.

I like to look at Google earth , plug share , and Tony Williams range chart when planning a road trip. If I was doing this ,I would stop at the L3 EVGO at the wall mart. Then stop at the closest L2 at the gardens or there is a home you could call on plug share. ( can be a fun stop at times) 16 miles @ 38 MPH is 2.6 KWH, then the hill 5110 feet all climb. 1.5 KWH for each 1000 feet = 7.6 KWH + 2.6KWH 10.2 kwh should be close. You should have 15 KWH in the battery ? You should be able to make this trip no problem.
I have found with a used battery the Turtle is about a 100 feet! When that happens I had no Regeneration and no motor till I charged. I have read not to go below 500 watt hours on leaf spy, and I have not had to tow my car. hope this helps.