sendler2112
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2016
Location: Syracuse, NY USA

Re: 30kwh battery, warranty and capacity bar questions I cannot find elsewhere....

Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:13 pm

You are racking up some good miles and have an excellent quick charge network around you so we can see a good comparison of your cycle life to the data about lower mileage calendar life that is known here.

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7201
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 30kwh battery, warranty and capacity bar questions I cannot find elsewhere....

Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:19 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
jbuntz wrote:I think I can tell you what not to do to keep your 30kwh battery healthy.

I bought a 2016 SL last 12/2016 that was built in 11/2015. Almost as soon as I drove it home I was wondering about battery capacity. A week later I got leaf spy and it showed AHr=68.93, SOH=86% Hx=83.96% 2QCs & 27 L1/L2

I know it sat on a lot in Texas for a year and I bet they charged it to 100% after every test drive.

As of today it has recovered a little AHr=71.21 SOH=89% Hx=86.18%. The best I have seen on a full charge is 25.7kWh.

That sucks but I wouldn't bother w/the Leaf Spy kWh values. I bet what you're looking at is just based off of # of gids * (whatever the Wh/gids setting is set to). The default for that is 77.5, IIRC.

I posted about this at viewtopic.php?p=476092#p476092.


so what should it be? 75?

You tell me. I'll say it again and try to expand more.

We have no idea if ANY constant value is correct for mapping kWh in the pack vs. gids. For all we know, it's vestigial code in their firmware that was used from some internal testing that they no longer use.

We have no idea if it's only accurate for certain ranges of gid values (e.g. not correct near the top and/or bottom). I seem to recall some people posting that near the bottom some gids lasted longer than others. When the pack is near full and charging rate is below say 4 kW, it seems like the gid value doesn't move up much. We have no idea if there actually need to be multiple constants depending on what the gid value is. (e.g. value A for gid range ___ to ___, value B for gid range ___ to ___ and so on).

We have no idea if there are certain conditions that need to be met for it to be accurate (e.g. certain pack condition or temperature, after certain things have happened, after a certain rest period, only accurate on a new pack, only accurate on a pack degraded no more than ____, only accurate if drained down to _____ and filled to ____, etc.) These are are hypothetical. We have no idea of the gid count's accuracy.

Unless Nissan can officially provide us such info, I think it's basically useless data to assert one's pack has ____ kWh capacity per Leaf Spy and useless to try to compare kWh numbers from Leaf Spy vs. values from L2 charging stations (w/stats) or CHAdeMO chargers. An alternative is to do some test where Leaf Spy's kWh number is compared vs. charging the battery fully and discharging the battery until dead, using something else to count the kWh that came out of the battery. But, that may not work if there are other conditions/caveats we don't know about.

Just use gids by themselves. Forget trying to derive w/accuracy how much is in the battery from it.
Last edited by cwerdna on Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

jbuntz
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:41 am
Delivery Date: 17 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 303765
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 30kwh battery, warranty and capacity bar questions I cannot find elsewhere....

Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:04 pm

I still have issue with my Leaf if it shows 327 GIDs and most new 30kWh show 360+ I still feel I got stuck with a defective battery.
Mfg 11/15 Del 12/16 TX 2016 SL 30kWh,
30 Apr 2017 5175 mi 324 GID Ahr 70.75 SOH 89% Hx 85.31% kWh 25.1
11 Aug 2017 11 bar 9245 mi 282 GID Ahr 61.68 SOH 77% Hx 75.83% kWh 21.9
21 Oct 2017 10 bars 12000 mi 260 GID Ahr 57.22 SOH 71% Hx 70.58% kWh 20.2

jbuntz
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:41 am
Delivery Date: 17 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 303765
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 30kwh battery, warranty and capacity bar questions I cannot find elsewhere....

Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:17 pm

Before I bought it I had been planning in my head that I could make an adventure out of driving to my brother's house which is 130 miles away, no hills and smooth roads where I could average 50 mph. Now I am thinking it would take a stop at a RV park for sure.
Mfg 11/15 Del 12/16 TX 2016 SL 30kWh,
30 Apr 2017 5175 mi 324 GID Ahr 70.75 SOH 89% Hx 85.31% kWh 25.1
11 Aug 2017 11 bar 9245 mi 282 GID Ahr 61.68 SOH 77% Hx 75.83% kWh 21.9
21 Oct 2017 10 bars 12000 mi 260 GID Ahr 57.22 SOH 71% Hx 70.58% kWh 20.2

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 12244
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 30kwh battery, warranty and capacity bar questions I cannot find elsewhere....

Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:07 pm

cwerdna wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
cwerdna wrote:That sucks but I wouldn't bother w/the Leaf Spy kWh values. I bet what you're looking at is just based off of # of gids * (whatever the Wh/gids setting is set to). The default for that is 77.5, IIRC.

I posted about this at viewtopic.php?p=476092#p476092.


so what should it be? 75?

You tell me. I'll say it again and try to expand more.

We have no idea if ANY constant value is correct for mapping kWh in the pack vs. gids. For all we know, it's vestigial code in their firmware that was used from some internal testing that they no longer use.

We have no idea if it's only accurate for certain ranges of gid values (e.g. not correct near the top and/or bottom). I seem to recall some people posting that near the bottom some gids lasted longer than others. When the pack is near full and charging rate is below say 4 kW, it seems like the gid value doesn't move up much. We have no idea if there actually need to be multiple constants depending on what the gid value is. (e.g. value A for gid range ___ to ___, value B for gid range ___ to ___ and so on).

We have no idea if there are certain conditions that need to be met for it to be accurate (e.g. certain pack condition or temperature, after certain things have happened, after a certain rest period, only accurate on a new pack, only accurate on a pack degraded no more than ____, only accurate if drained down to _____ and filled to ____, etc.) These are are hypothetical. We have no idea of the gid count's accuracy.

Unless Nissan can officially provide us such info, I think it's basically useless data to assert one's pack has ____ kWh capacity per Leaf Spy and useless to try to compare kWh numbers from Leaf Spy vs. values from L2 charging stations (w/stats) or CHAdeMO chargers. An alternative is to do some test where Leaf Spy's kWh number is compared vs. charging the battery fully and discharging the battery until dead, using something else to count the kWh that came out of the battery. But, that may not work if there are other conditions/caveats we don't know about.

Just use gids by themselves. Forget trying to derive w/accuracy how much is in the battery from it.


yeah, I have noticed weaker GIDs at the top, stronger ones on the bottom but always considered the fault to be Nissan instrumentation over changing values?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

sendler2112
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2016
Location: Syracuse, NY USA

Re: 30kwh battery, warranty and capacity bar questions I cannot find elsewhere....

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:04 am

jbuntz wrote:I still have issue with my Leaf if it shows 327 GIDs and most new 30kWh show 360+ I still feel I got stuck with a defective battery.

Check out this thread where many others are posting data on the 2016 battery.
.
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=20924
.

sendler2112
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2016
Location: Syracuse, NY USA

Re: 30kwh battery, warranty and capacity bar questions I cannot find elsewhere....

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:09 am

From the other thread Turbo3 writes
"Max Gids today was 356 at 99% dash reported SOC. I was expecting a max of 355 Gids.

356 Gids would be reported as 28,480 kWh by Consult 3+."

gregn
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:29 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Apr 2016
Leaf Number: 308289
Location: Montpelier, VT

Re: 30kwh battery, warranty and capacity bar questions I cannot find elsewhere....

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:31 am

Agreed about Leafspy being just another tool. I defiantly use it as such. Way more reliable than just the car info. I have figured out how to get a pretty good idea what the car can do based on it's limited info but I would never trust it to push the limits. For example, in the cold I will never head for home (32 miles) if I have less than 7 bars showing on the Distance to Empty gauge. Or 55% battery. I would likely make it but I know I would be in LBW at some point before home. I go to a nearby DC and get some more electrons. Using Leafspy I can tell exactly if I can make it or not. I've tested it a lot and it tracks pretty well. In the summer I can actually trust the GOM strangely. It said 34 miles one day so I went for it. Hit LBW just as I got home but made it. I don't recommend trusting that silly number.

I change the Miles per kWh every trip actually. I try to match it with what the same readout in LeafSpy is telling me. Early in the trip that number is all over the place but after a while it seems to settle. It is less optimistic than the miles / kWh on the car dash. As I mentioned it seems to track reality better than the on on the car. Using that data the miles to LBW in LeafSpy hit zero within seconds of the LBW warning. I'd call that pretty good.

--

I will have some good numbers in a few years I hope. This is my only car replacing a Honda Fit which I loved. I just felt I wanted to do something for the planet and help EVs be noticed. Folks seeing a Leaf everyday on the way to work will let them know they are here and real. I had been watching the Leaf since it came out but the 30kWh addition made it real for me. I really haven't changed my driving habits that much. I still take the long trip I have to. Of course I drive slower but that is kind of nice actually. I went 55 on both Boston trips and didn't get run over. Yes long trips like that are out in the very cold but I never do those anyway.
I do plan to get my EVSE upgraded to be able to handle 240. I can charge at work and also have access to 240 there as well. It will be handy if I need to run errands and use more than what will take me home.

Cheers.
2016 Leaf SV Pearl Blue
67 mile daily commute
Bat Stats@15%SOC: AHr=78.23 SOH=98% Hx=93.13% Balance Delta = 15mv
odo=16,820

cdherman
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:22 am
Leaf Number: 22947
Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Re: 30kwh battery, warranty and capacity bar questions I cannot find elsewhere....

Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:59 am

Well, I feel tragically justified in my concerns back when I started this thread.

Now per reports in the other "master thread" http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=20924 I was correct in my worries that Nissan manipulated what the bars report, meaning they may not have to replace a battery until its lost over 50% of its capacity.

I am at 1 year of ownership now on my 2016 30wkh car. Leafspy is showing 327 GIDS or about 91% To be fair, the battery was made in 4/2016, so its seen 2 Summers. Miles are about 12k. Looks like heat and time are killers for the Lizard packs too....

I have not babied it in the least. Sorry to bother anyone in resurrecting the thread. When I googled the topic, it was my own thread that came up first and after 30 min of reading, it just sucks.....
2016 SV 30kwh, 2014 Blue Prius, 2011 Silver Prius, 2005 Subaru Forester X, 1965 F-100
8.2KW GridTie Solar
Sold 2012 SL 42k miles, 10 bars, 12/15/16 for $5999
Kansas City MO

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 12244
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 30kwh battery, warranty and capacity bar questions I cannot find elsewhere....

Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:02 pm

cdherman wrote:Well, I feel tragically justified in my concerns back when I started this thread.

Now per reports in the other "master thread" http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=20924 I was correct in my worries that Nissan manipulated what the bars report, meaning they may not have to replace a battery until its lost over 50% of its capacity.

I am at 1 year of ownership now on my 2016 30wkh car. Leafspy is showing 327 GIDS or about 91% To be fair, the battery was made in 4/2016, so its seen 2 Summers. Miles are about 12k. Looks like heat and time are killers for the Lizard packs too....

I have not babied it in the least. Sorry to bother anyone in resurrecting the thread. When I googled the topic, it was my own thread that came up first and after 30 min of reading, it just sucks.....


what is your current status?

build date
mileage
bars lost
LEAF Spy if available?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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